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From: Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 14:44:36 +0300
Message-ID: <CAO7bV+g1uR7cEWvmmya5S=-XuuDUEW_WQ3D+gWfMVFdLrg4k8A@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban] Pronunciation on "The Crash Course"
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2016-03-02 14:00 GMT+03:00 And Rosta <and.rosta@gmail.com>:

>
> On 2 Mar 2016 08:42, "Gleki Arxokuna" <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > 2016-03-02 11:16 GMT+03:00 And Rosta <and.rosta@gmail.com>:
> >>
> >>
> >> On 2 Mar 2016 07:42, "Luke Bergen" <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Found my way to
> https://mw.lojban.org/papri/The_Crash_Course_(a_draft) and noticed "ia is
> pronounced as yu in yummy". Is this true? I thought given the pronunciation
> of "a" that "ia" would be pronounced more like "yo" as in "yonder" or
> "beyond".
> >> >
> >> > I'd think if you wanted to make the "yu" as in "yummy" sound in
> lojban the closest thing would be "iy"
> >> >
> >> > Am I wrong in this?
> >>
> >> You're right for North Americans. The crash course is right for the
> Southern English and Southern Hemisphereans. Both are wrong, in different
> ways, for the Northern English and the Irish and the Scots.
> >>
> >> Any attempt to characterize phonetic realization of Lojban phonemes in
> terms of English words is likely to engender confusions like this. In 2016
> you can use IPA linked to Wikipedia, or IPA with embedded sound files, or
> just sound files.
> >
> >
> > And, would "ya" in "yard" suffice?
>
> It's better, in that it's wrong for far fewer dialects (it's wrong for
> pockets of southern Lancashire, for instance, but pockets of southern
> Lancashire are but small areas of the globe); but that explanatory strategy
> is pretty much doomed to fail for at least some readers.
>

I always remember attempts to explain Chinese tones in text form.
The best explanation in the tutorials I read was "listen to native Chinese
speakers".


--And.
>
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo=
te">2016-03-02 14:00 GMT+03:00 And Rosta <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:and.rosta@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">and.rosta@gmail.com</a>&gt;</s=
pan>:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;borde=
r-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span class=3D""><p dir=3D"ltr"><br=
>
On 2 Mar 2016 08:42, &quot;Gleki Arxokuna&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gleki=
.is.my.name@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com</a>&gt;=
 wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; 2016-03-02 11:16 GMT+03:00 And Rosta &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:and.rosta@g=
mail.com" target=3D"_blank">and.rosta@gmail.com</a>&gt;:<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; On 2 Mar 2016 07:42, &quot;Luke Bergen&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:lukeabergen@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">lukeabergen@gmail.com</a>&gt; wro=
te:<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; Found my way to <a href=3D"https://mw.lojban.org/papri/The_Cr=
ash_Course_(a_draft)" target=3D"_blank">https://mw.lojban.org/papri/The_Cra=
sh_Course_(a_draft)</a> and noticed &quot;ia is pronounced as yu in yummy&q=
uot;. Is this true? I thought given the pronunciation of &quot;a&quot; that=
 &quot;ia&quot; would be pronounced more like &quot;yo&quot; as in &quot;yo=
nder&quot; or &quot;beyond&quot;.<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; I&#39;d think if you wanted to make the &quot;yu&quot; as in =
&quot;yummy&quot; sound in lojban the closest thing would be &quot;iy&quot;=
<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; Am I wrong in this?<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; You&#39;re right for North Americans. The crash course is right fo=
r the Southern English and Southern Hemisphereans. Both are wrong, in diffe=
rent ways, for the Northern English and the Irish and the Scots.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Any attempt to characterize phonetic realization of Lojban phoneme=
s in terms of English words is likely to engender confusions like this. In =
2016 you can use IPA linked to Wikipedia, or IPA with embedded sound files,=
 or just sound files.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; And, would &quot;ya&quot; in &quot;yard&quot; suffice?</p>
</span><p dir=3D"ltr">It&#39;s better, in that it&#39;s wrong for far fewer=
 dialects (it&#39;s wrong for pockets of southern Lancashire, for instance,=
 but pockets of southern Lancashire are but small areas of the globe); but =
that explanatory strategy is pretty much doomed to fail for at least some r=
eaders.</p></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I always remember attempts to e=
xplain Chinese tones in text form.</div><div>The best explanation in the tu=
torials I read was &quot;listen to native Chinese speakers&quot;.</div><div=
><br></div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin=
:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class=3D"HOEn=
Zb"><div class=3D"h5">
<p dir=3D"ltr">--And.</p>

<p></p>

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</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div>

<p></p>

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