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From: Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 16 May 2016 16:51:58 +0300
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Subject: Re: [lojban] zo remna
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2016-05-16 16:22 GMT+03:00 Jacob Stewart <jstewart@openmailbox.org>:

>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
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>
>
>
> On 16/05/16 07:23, Gleki Arxokuna wrote:
> > I can only suppose that this gismu encoding the notion of "humans don't
> have any finer distinctions,
> no subspecies, no races, nothing". Given that their diversity is indeed
> low compared to e.g. apes it makes sense.
> But why does only this animal brivla encode the notion of "this animal
> doesn't have any finer distinctions, no subspecies, no races, nothing"?
>

Learning verbs is usually done in so called "frames". E.g. the place
structure of {xunre} - "to be red", {blabli} - "to be white" and other
colors coincide. In other words they belong to the same "frame".

Animals are similar: {mlatu} - "to be a cat of species/breed x2", {gerku} -
"to be a dog of species/breed x2." Again the same frame.

Humans have certain differences from other animals and these differences
were enough to make a new frame.
Why? Because the creators of gimste just felt so.

Of course, some people think: "I do want to describe humans as the third
species of chimpanzees with two races (subspecies). How do I specify these
two natural human races? And how do I specify Neanderthals, Denisovans
etc.?"

The answer is: "exceed the original wordlist". Make a new brivla (verb
word).
I don't know what that word would be but personally I have a feeling that
existing words from natural languages like "human" are too ambiguous. So
better to invent something new maybe from scratch.

Note that "Homo sapiens" isn't precise enough either on its own. Do we
accept Neanderthals as Homo sapiens or not? Earlier scientists said "no",
now they say "yes". This shift of notions is inevitable so delving into
ultimate precision is impossible either.


> Is our diversity low compared to any other animals?
>

Yes, but that's not necessarily an explanation of the place structure of
{remna}. Look at other words like {curnu
<http://la-lojban.github.io/sutysisku/en/#sisku/curnu>} (see its notes),
{jukni}, {cinki}. This nomenclature it mostly a folk one, it doesn't
necessarily represent any scientific understanding of year 2016.


> .i ji'a zo'e goi ko'a jetnu nagi'anai li'armi .iseki'ubo xamgu fa lo
> za'i ko'a jai se kakne fai lo pu'u cusku
> .i lo drata be mi jinvi ma lo du'u go'e ku joi lo du'u go'i ku ma
>

.i .e'e mi'o denpa lo nu lo drata cu retsku


> - --
> Languages I know at least something of:
> mi caca'a cilre fi la lojban .i ri caca'a remoi lo'i bangu lo ni mi
> djuno fi ce'u
> I know English fluently (native language).
> I learnt GCSE level Spanish and pre-GCSE level French once and forgot a
> lot.
> I know a tiny bit of Japanese.
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo=
te">2016-05-16 16:22 GMT+03:00 Jacob Stewart <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:jstewart@openmailbox.org" target=3D"_blank">jstewart@openmailbox=
.org</a>&gt;</span>:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0=
px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-=
color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><span class=3D""><br>
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----<br>
Hash: SHA1<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</span><span class=3D"">On 16/05/16 07:23, Gleki Arxokuna wrote:<br>
&gt; I can only suppose that this gismu encoding the notion of &quot;humans=
 don&#39;t have any finer distinctions,<br>
no subspecies, no races, nothing&quot;. Given that their diversity is indee=
d<br>
low compared to e.g. apes it makes sense.<br>
</span>But why does only this animal brivla encode the notion of &quot;this=
 animal<br>
doesn&#39;t have any finer distinctions, no subspecies, no races, nothing&q=
uot;?<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Learning verbs is usually done in=
 so called &quot;frames&quot;. E.g. the place structure of {xunre} - &quot;=
to be red&quot;, {blabli} - &quot;to be white&quot; and other colors coinci=
de. In other words they belong to the same &quot;frame&quot;.</div><div><br=
></div><div>Animals are similar: {mlatu} - &quot;to be a cat of species/bre=
ed x2&quot;, {gerku} - &quot;to be a dog of species/breed x2.&quot; Again t=
he same frame.</div><div><br></div><div>Humans have certain differences fro=
m other animals and these differences were enough to make a new frame.<br><=
/div><div>Why? Because the creators of gimste just felt so.</div><div><br><=
/div><div>Of course, some people think: &quot;I do want to describe humans =
as the third species of chimpanzees with two races (subspecies). How do I s=
pecify these two natural human races? And how do I specify Neanderthals, De=
nisovans etc.?&quot;</div><div><br></div><div>The answer is: &quot;exceed t=
he original wordlist&quot;. Make a new brivla (verb word).</div><div>I don&=
#39;t know what that word would be but personally I have a feeling that exi=
sting words from natural languages like &quot;human&quot; are too ambiguous=
. So better to invent something new maybe from scratch.</div><div><br></div=
><div>Note that &quot;Homo sapiens&quot; isn&#39;t precise enough either on=
 its own. Do we accept Neanderthals as Homo sapiens or not? Earlier scienti=
sts said &quot;no&quot;, now they say &quot;yes&quot;. This shift of notion=
s is inevitable so delving into ultimate precision is impossible either.</d=
iv><div><br></div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;=
border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
Is our diversity low compared to any other animals?<br></blockquote><div><b=
r></div><div>Yes, but that&#39;s not necessarily an explanation of the plac=
e structure of {remna}. Look at other words like {<a href=3D"http://la-lojb=
an.github.io/sutysisku/en/#sisku/curnu">curnu</a>} (see its notes), {jukni}=
, {cinki}. This nomenclature it mostly a folk one, it doesn&#39;t necessari=
ly represent any scientific understanding of year 2016.</div><div>=C2=A0</d=
iv><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;bord=
er-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204=
);padding-left:1ex">
.i ji&#39;a zo&#39;e goi ko&#39;a jetnu nagi&#39;anai li&#39;armi .iseki=
9;ubo xamgu fa lo<br>
za&#39;i ko&#39;a jai se kakne fai lo pu&#39;u cusku<br>
.i lo drata be mi jinvi ma lo du&#39;u go&#39;e ku joi lo du&#39;u go&#39;i=
 ku ma<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>.i .e&#39;e mi&#39;o denpa lo nu=
 lo drata cu retsku</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote"=
 style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:=
solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<span class=3D"">- --<br>
Languages I know at least something of:<br>
</span>mi caca&#39;a cilre fi la lojban .i ri caca&#39;a remoi lo&#39;i ban=
gu lo ni mi<br>
djuno fi ce&#39;u<br>
<span class=3D"">I know English fluently (native language).<br>
I learnt GCSE level Spanish and pre-GCSE level French once and forgot a lot=
.<br>
I know a tiny bit of Japanese.<br>
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</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div>

<p></p>

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