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Date: Fri, 20 May 2016 19:22:37 +0000
Message-ID: <CACtk4+Ag-Syr3oKPd8niOsDShtgjgvvDavTVN1Y4=2ecN5vc3w@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: [lojban] a thing or two about the Crash Course
From: Bruno Panasiewicz <ciuak.prog@gmail.com>
To: mriste <lojban@googlegroups.com>
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  Hello there,
I'm genuinely offended by that the Crash Course's resources are not
properly marked.

  To elaborate: the course is not a single page and, as you can guess,
produces a lot of topics not quite parallel, or even relevant to it. Also,
the contents describe an unofficial variation on the theme of official
(BPFK) Lojban, containing many experimental cmavo, selma'o and
constructions. Now, there are many dialects of Lojban extant, and they all
appear on the wiki. This means that such dialects should be marked off by a
template or warning at the top of a page. Yet many, if not most of the CC's
pages don't warn the reader this way. It is important to do so, as it
doesn't confuse that reader into thinking some construct is official while
it isn't. There are many solutions to this problem.

  The first one is defining what a "modern dialect of Lojban" as taught by
CC is, by the community itself. For example: is the selpa'i 's JE model
counted? Is {xoi} in it? One could ask such questions night-long, and
wouldn't get a brick solid answer. So why not capture it? Then we're only a
template away from victory!

  (A rationale for such a thing: at any point, gleki can add {moi'i'au'e}
of ME (=E2=80=9Dx1 is a fish swimming in patterns [sumti]"), declare it as =
the
modern dialect, and suddenly a new army of nintadni would flush the jbogu'e
talking about the peculiar swimming patterns of salmon. Now that's what I
call evil! In order to avoid such silliness, a list of accepted
experimental stuff would form, and no such personal mix-and-match morphing
of the language of unaware learners would occur.)

  The second one is to put guns on BPFK's members' cheeks and make them
mainstream the new usage proposals... ah, forget it.

  The real second one is to remove the whole CC from the wiki. This way, no
one will be concerned about viewing random pages on the wiki and thinking
they are in official Lojban while they aren't. Simple, right?

  The third one is to do the following: for every nonstandard usage or
word, add a warning about it, link to a relevant page and show the official
version. Suddenly we don't get any of the problems we've experienced before=
!

  The fourth one is to stop that stupid marking and consider every dialect
to be Lojban. This would include lo geirbau and lo cu'u banzu frica be le
jbobau ku ku xo'o.

  What would YOU do? I think that not doing any of these would be an
offense from gleki's side, so some of these should be done. Feel free to
discuss it here, or fork the thread, if you feel like you're splitting hair
in two and talking about one half only.

=E2=80=94 mu'o

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<p dir=3D"ltr">=C2=A0 Hello there,<br>
I&#39;m genuinely offended by that the Crash Course&#39;s resources are not=
 properly marked.</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">=C2=A0 To elaborate: the course is not a single page and, as=
 you can guess, produces a lot of topics not quite parallel, or even releva=
nt to it. Also, the contents describe an unofficial variation on the theme =
of official (BPFK) Lojban, containing many experimental cmavo, selma&#39;o =
and constructions. Now, there are many dialects of Lojban extant, and they =
all appear on the wiki. This means that such dialects should be marked off =
by a template or warning at the top of a page. Yet many, if not most of the=
 CC&#39;s pages don&#39;t warn the reader this way. It is important to do s=
o, as it doesn&#39;t confuse that reader into thinking some construct is of=
ficial while it isn&#39;t. There are many solutions to this problem.</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">=C2=A0 The first one is defining what a &quot;modern dialect=
 of Lojban&quot; as taught by CC is, by the community itself. For example: =
is the selpa&#39;i &#39;s JE model counted? Is {xoi} in it? One could ask s=
uch questions night-long, and wouldn&#39;t get a brick solid answer. So why=
 not capture it? Then we&#39;re only a template away from victory!</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">=C2=A0 (A rationale for such a thing: at any point, gleki ca=
n add {moi&#39;i&#39;au&#39;e} of ME (=E2=80=9Dx1 is a fish swimming in pat=
terns [sumti]&quot;), declare it as the modern dialect, and suddenly a new =
army of nintadni would flush the jbogu&#39;e talking about the peculiar swi=
mming patterns of salmon. Now that&#39;s what I call evil! In order to avoi=
d such silliness, a list of accepted experimental stuff would form, and no =
such personal mix-and-match morphing of the language of unaware learners wo=
uld occur.)</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">=C2=A0 The second one is to put guns on BPFK&#39;s members&#=
39; cheeks and make them mainstream the new usage proposals... ah, forget i=
t.</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">=C2=A0 The real second one is to remove the whole CC from th=
e wiki. This way, no one will be concerned about viewing random pages on th=
e wiki and thinking they are in official Lojban while they aren&#39;t. Simp=
le, right?</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">=C2=A0 The third one is to do the following: for every nonst=
andard usage or word, add a warning about it, link to a relevant page and s=
how the official version. Suddenly we don&#39;t get any of the problems we&=
#39;ve experienced before!</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">=C2=A0 The fourth one is to stop that stupid marking and con=
sider every dialect to be Lojban. This would include lo geirbau and lo cu&#=
39;u banzu frica be le jbobau ku ku xo&#39;o.</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">=C2=A0 What would YOU do? I think that not doing any of thes=
e would be an offense from gleki&#39;s side, so some of these should be don=
e. Feel free to discuss it here, or fork the thread, if you feel like you&#=
39;re splitting hair in two and talking about one half only.</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">=E2=80=94 mu&#39;o</p>

<p></p>

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