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Subject: Re: [lojban] a thing or two about the Crash Course
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From: "Bob LeChevalier, President and Founder - LLG" <lojbab@lojban.org>
Organization: The Logical Language Group, Inc.
Message-ID: <f06bd5a6-4c59-2387-4fd9-a3766b02dfaf@lojban.org>
Date: Sun, 22 May 2016 11:30:38 -0400
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On 5/22/2016 4:18 AM, Bruno Panasiewicz wrote:
> On 22 May 2016 at 07:16, Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com
> <mailto:gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>> wrote:
...
>         =E2=80=8B"I don't like them"? What you're saying is nonsense. Eit=
her
>         you're a descriptivist and choose to describe what's used, no
>         matter if you want it or not; or you're a prescriptivist,
>         drawing a straight, definite line between "correct" Lojban and
>         not Lojban. If you're the first one, then what you've just said
>         disproves it, because you can't cherrypick features. If you're
>         the second, then I have to say, your "straight, definite line"
>         is tremendously fuzzy. I don't mind if you're writing this
>         frivolously, but then please don't tell us such things.
>
>
> =E2=80=8BNow, YOU haven't answered my question.=E2=80=8B
>

>                 Keep it consistent. Either there is 1 Lojban, or there
>                 are many.
>
>
>             There is 1 Lojban but la bangu is not about any particular
>             language at all.
>
>
>         =E2=80=8BDefine "not any particular language at all". Maybe I don=
't
>         understand.=E2=80=8B
>
>
>     La Bangu is for Loglan, Lojban, semi-Lojban whatever.
>
>
> =E2=80=8BThen what are you really trying to teach? BPFK Lojban? CLL Lojba=
n? IRC
> Lojban? Zantufa Lojban? A mix of these, maybe?=E2=80=8B

...

>                 > One page can cause much confusion if it teaches unoffic=
ial or wrong Lojban or not Lojban.
>
>                 What is not Lojban? Give me a wiki page that exemplifies
>                 your statement.
>
>
>             Wave lessons.
>
>
>         =E2=80=8BWave Lessons try do describe official Lojban with some
>         discrepancies. Everything gets slowly reviewed in this peculiar
>         place, and Wave Lessons are just a bit late.

...


>             It uses experimental cmavo that you consider bad.
>
>
>         =E2=80=8BWhich one? You mean, {xa'o}? Have they told the listener=
s that
>         it's experimental?=E2=80=8B
>
>
>     Read more. Maybe you read only the crash course on the wiki which is
>     fine by itself but criticizing one page (or one set of pages if you
>     include transclusion) must be done in comparison with other pages.
>
>     There are other experimental cmavo. Just read carefully.
>
>
> =E2=80=8BThen either remove them or warn about them.=E2=80=8B

lojbab weighs in (informally), for what it's worth.

OK.  Maybe I am figuring out what this is about.  Or maybe not.  If this=20
"Crash Course" is on the wiki, then politeness to all the rest of us=20
readers would necessitate someone actually putting a link to it (which=20
should be included in ALL messages about the topic, since not everyone=20
reads every message).

So I've never seen this "crash course".  And I don't have the time or=20
the interest to try to find it.  But there seems to be enough=20
information to offer some guidelines.

1.  Both "The Wave Lessons" and the "Crash Course" seem to be distinct=20
and unitary items, just as is "CLL". It seems to me that any such=20
unitary items should be well-defined, and isolated.  One way is to=20
remove them completely from the normal Lojban web pages to something=20
separate, and then include a single point of entry link that is used to=20
get from the Lojban web pages to a home page for the unitary project.

2.  If the unitary project is implemented on the same wiki as the Lojban=20
web pages (as seems to be the case here), there should be a single index=20
page that lists and links to all of the component pages making up the=20
project, and maybe a separate index to any pages that comment on, or=20
make reference to, the component pages.  The project home page would=20
link to this.

3.  If the project makes use of any experimental or non-standard=20
language features, there should be maintained a list of those features=20
in one place, either on the project home page, or on the index page, or=20
on some other single page where people can look and see and thus easily=20
evaluate whether they wish to make use of the material.  It is not=20
necessary to mark each non standard use, so long as there is only the=20
single entry point into the materials, and the list of non-standard=20
features is easily found from that single entry point.

The standard language is defined by the baseline materials and any=20
changes formally approved by byfy (which hopefully will maintain a=20
single page linking to all approved changes that are not included in the=20
baseline documentation).

lojbab

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