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[2607:f8b0:4003:c06::22c]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id p189si100869itc.1.2016.06.02.10.36.30 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 02 Jun 2016 10:36:30 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lytlesw@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4003:c06::22c as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:4003:c06::22c; Received: by mail-oi0-x22c.google.com with SMTP id e72so84035904oib.1 for ; Thu, 02 Jun 2016 10:36:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.202.184.6 with SMTP id i6mr29448654oif.76.1464888989915; Thu, 02 Jun 2016 10:36:29 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.157.43.43 with HTTP; Thu, 2 Jun 2016 10:36:00 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: MorphemeAddict Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2016 12:36:00 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Nomenclature of the periodic table To: lojban@googlegroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113cd190e11f1c05344f0b95 X-Original-Sender: lytlesw@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lytlesw@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4003:c06::22c as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=lytlesw@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Spam-Checked-In-Group: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -1.8 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.8 X-Spam_score_int: -17 X-Spam_bar: - --001a113cd190e11f1c05344f0b95 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 I'm not a physicist (or a chemist) either, but one problem I foresee with this approach is that the names of elements are frequently modified in the names of the compounds those elements comprise, for example, carbon dioxide (CO2). The prefix "di-" is also a number, so it would mean putting together two or more number morphemes in such a way that they are still distinct and understandable. Something like " Element6(*1)+Element8*2 ". Valence numbers can come into play, too. I've seen these a lot with iron compounds. There are lots of different systems for adding numbers to these element and compound names: letters of various alphabets (alpha, beta; A/a, B/b; 1, 2), number prefixes from various languages (mono-, di-, tri- vs. uni-, bi-). stevo stevo Virus-free. www.avast.com <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 9:31 AM, la pluja wrote: > Something that has bugged me the last few days is the current nomenclature > of the chemical elements. > I am relatively new to lojban but what I have learned quite early is that > lojban tries to name every object/idea/concept systematically. > So for an example the lojban names for days in a week are named after > there position in the week. > Monday (or "is a monday") for example is *pavdei *(a construct of the > rafsi of pa and djedi), literally "one-day". > > On the other hand the current nomenclature of chemical elements > (https://jbo.wikipedia.org/wiki/dikni_selratni_cartu) is based on their > trivia names in latin/english or whatsoever. > > Why is this? It's like calling monday *mondei * in lojba. > > I propose the chemical elements are called by the number of protons in > their nuclei, which defines the chemical element > (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_element). > > An possible implementation would be to combine the rafsi of the numbers > with the rafsi of > > *ratni. *An example: > > *pavrat* > > *x1 is an atom of atomic number 1 of isotope number/atomic weight x2; x1 > is hydrogen of isotope number/atomic weight x2* > > > and/or > > > > *x1 is a quantity of/contains/is made of hydrogen* > The latter definition could of course also be made with *gunma* > or something similar. > > Any thoughts on that? > > (Another proposal which might be discussed is if protons, neutrons and > such should be called something equivalent to "up-up-down" [proton] > instead of *protoni * or *nurtoni > * respectively. Then it would > be necessary to define unambigious valsi for quantum states ) > > I am neither a physician nor an experienced lojbanist but this simply > bugged me several days, so what do you think of it? > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --001a113cd190e11f1c05344f0b95 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I'm not a physicist (or a chemist) either, b= ut one problem I foresee with this approach is that the names of elements a= re frequently modified in the names of the compounds those elements compris= e, for example, carbon dioxide (CO2). The prefix "di-" is also a = number, so it would mean putting together two or more number morphemes in s= uch a way that they are still distinct and understandable. Something like &= quot; Element6(*1)+Element8*2 ". Valence numbers can come into play, t= oo. I've seen these a lot with iron compounds. There are lots of differ= ent systems for adding numbers to these element and compound names: letters= of various alphabets (alpha, beta; A/a, B/b; 1, 2), number prefixes from v= arious languages (mono-, di-, tri- vs. uni-, bi-).=C2=A0
stevo

stevo
=

Virus-free. www.avast.com

On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 9:31 AM, la pluja <hr.muendler@gmail.com&g= t; wrote:
Somethi= ng that has bugged me the last few days is the current nomenclature of the = chemical elements.
I am relatively new to lojban but what I have learned= quite early is that lojban tries to name every object/idea/concept systema= tically.
So for an example the lojban names for days in a week are named= after there position in the week.
Monday (or "is a monday") f= or example is pavdei (a construct of the rafsi of pa and djedi), lit= erally "one-day".

On the other hand the current nomenclatu= re of chemical elements (https://jbo.wikipedia.org/wiki/dikni_selratni_c= artu) is based on their trivia names in latin/english or whatsoever.
Why is this? It's like calling monday mondei in lojba.
=
I propose the chemical elements are called by the number of protons in = their nuclei, which defines the chemical element (https://en.wikipedia.o= rg/wiki/Chemical_element).

An possible implementation would be t= o combine the rafsi of the numbers with the rafsi of ratni.

An = example:
=C2=A0pavrat
x1 is= an atom of atomic number 1 of isotope number/atomic weight x2; = x1 is hydrogen of isotope number/atomic weight x2
=C2=A0=
and/or

x1 is a= quantity of/contains/is made of hydrogen

The latter defin= ition could of course also be made with gunma or something similar.
Any thoughts on that?

(Another proposal which might be discusse= d is if protons, neutrons and such should be called something equivalent to= "up-up-down" [proton]
instead of protoni or nurtoni respectively. Then it would be necessary to define unambigious valsi f= or quantum states )

I am neither a physician nor an experienced lojb= anist but this simply bugged me several days, so what do you think of it?

--
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To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lojban.
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--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsub= scribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http= s://groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit http= s://groups.google.com/d/optout.
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