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[2a00:1450:400c:c09::234]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id f7si95123wmf.3.2016.06.05.01.23.29 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 05 Jun 2016 01:23:29 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of hr.muendler@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c09::234 as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:400c:c09::234; Received: by mail-wm0-x234.google.com with SMTP id s131so16457199wme.0 for ; Sun, 05 Jun 2016 01:23:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.28.47.212 with SMTP id v203mr7011078wmv.5.1465115009368; Sun, 05 Jun 2016 01:23:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.178.23] (x590f8cc0.dyn.telefonica.de. [89.15.140.192]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id z6sm14214990wjv.41.2016.06.05.01.23.28 for (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sun, 05 Jun 2016 01:23:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [lojban] Nomenclature of the periodic table References: <2885643.QyLFOj7SkF@caracal> <4581DF54-EC46-48A9-93BC-EE804061E6AC@gmail.com> From: Niels Tron Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-4BE8DD19-3DF0-410B-AEB7-6A3ADD08C2DA X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (13F69) In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <46E9C252-E5B0-48B2-BF1A-636F70AC232D@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2016 10:23:27 +0200 To: lojban@googlegroups.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) X-Original-Sender: Hr.Muendler@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of hr.muendler@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c09::234 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=hr.muendler@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Spam-Checked-In-Group: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -1.8 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.8 X-Spam_score_int: -17 X-Spam_bar: - --Apple-Mail-4BE8DD19-3DF0-410B-AEB7-6A3ADD08C2DA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Okay I understand now, but is it important to include this indication in lo= jban? I'm not a chemist so I don't see why it would be important whether th= ere are one or more other kinds of atoms.. > Am 05.06.2016 um 09:47 schrieb MorphemeAddict : >=20 > No, 'oxide' isn't used for indicating the number of oxygen atoms in a mol= ecule, but rather to indicate that there is only one other kind of atom in = the molecule besides oxygen, hence the 'binary' I mentioned before.=20 >=20 > E.g., carbon dioxide (CO2) has one carbon atom and two oxygen atoms per C= O2 molecule. The 'two' is indicated by "di-", and the fact that there is on= ly one other kind of atom, namely, carbon, is indicated by the "-ide". The = oxygen is indicated by its supershort combining form "ox-".=20 >=20 > This also means that a molecule with three or more different kinds of ato= ms can't be called an "-ide".=20 >=20 > stevo=20 >=20 > On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 5:12 AM, Niels Tron wrote: >>> There should be a way to distinguish (if necessary) element 8 ('oxygen'= ) from its combining form 'oxide', meaning a binary compound of oxygen and = another element.=20 >>=20 >> Oh yes, sorry I meant "element 8" =3D "oxygen". That oxide is meant wou= ld be evident if there's more than one oxygen atom in a compound. Or am I w= rong about that? (no chemist either) >>=20 >>> Am 03.06.2016 um 19:45 schrieb MorphemeAddict : >>>=20 >>> There should be a way to distinguish (if necessary) element 8 ('oxygen'= ) from its combining form 'oxide', meaning a binary compound of oxygen and = another element.=20 >>>=20 >>> stevo >>>=20 >>> On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 7:49 AM, Niels Tron wrot= e: >>>>>> On Thursday, June 02, 2016 22:53:13 Niels Tron wrote: >>>>>> So accordingly dioxide would be simply relyratrbi? >>>>>=20 >>>>> I say "tabno relkijytau" and "tabno pavykijytau", but for those two c= hemicals=20 >>>>> I also have alternate names "bakrygapci" and "mantygapci" (the latter= because=20 >>>>> mantyslami jaurvelvi'u). >>>>=20 >>>> I'm certain you would day that, but my approach would be a rather syst= ematic one. It would simply state that this is a compound of two times the = atom of order (proton amount) 8 (which is oxide).=20 >>>> Of course one could use your proposal, but the idea is that by another= way ANY atom can be expressed (in a strictly scientific area or for anyone= who doesn't want to learn some randomly assigned words, copied into the lo= jban language) >>>>=20 >>>>> Am 02.06.2016 um 23:56 schrieb Pierre Abbat : >>>>>=20 >>>>>> On Thursday, June 02, 2016 22:53:13 Niels Tron wrote: >>>>>> So accordingly dioxide would be simply relyratrbi? >>>>>=20 >>>>> I say "tabno relkijytau" and "tabno pavykijytau", but for those two c= hemicals=20 >>>>> I also have alternate names "bakrygapci" and "mantygapci" (the latter= because=20 >>>>> mantyslami jaurvelvi'u). >>>>>=20 >>>>> Pierre >>>>> --=20 >>>>> The Black Garden on the Mountain is not on the Black Mountain. >>>>>=20 >>>>> --=20 >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in th= e Google Groups "lojban" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/top= ic/lojban/z8MlyYMdAT8/unsubscribe. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to l= ojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lojban. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>=20 >>>> --=20 >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Gro= ups "lojban" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send= an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lojban. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>=20 >>> --=20 >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the = Google Groups "lojban" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic= /lojban/z8MlyYMdAT8/unsubscribe. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to loj= ban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lojban. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>=20 >> --=20 >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s "lojban" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send a= n email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lojban. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >=20 > --=20 > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Go= ogle Groups "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/l= ojban/z8MlyYMdAT8/unsubscribe. > To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to lojba= n+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --Apple-Mail-4BE8DD19-3DF0-410B-AEB7-6A3ADD08C2DA Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Okay I understand now, but is it i= mportant to include this indication in lojban? I'm not a chemist so I don't= see why it would be important whether there are one or more other kinds of= atoms..



Am 05.06.2016 um 09:47 schrieb MorphemeA= ddict <lytlesw@gmail.com>:
No, 'oxide' isn't= used for indicating the number of oxygen atoms in a molecule, but rather t= o indicate that there is only one other kind of atom in the molecule beside= s oxygen, hence the 'binary' I mentioned before. 

E.g., car= bon dioxide (CO2) has one carbon atom and two oxygen atoms per CO2 molecule= . The 'two' is indicated by "di-", and the fact that there is only one othe= r kind of atom, namely, carbon, is indicated by the "-ide". The oxygen is i= ndicated by its supershort combining form "ox-". 

This also= means that a molecule with three or more different kinds of atoms can't be= called an "-ide". 

stevo 

On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 5:12 AM, N= iels Tron <hr.muendler@gmail.com> wrote:
There should be a= way to distinguish (if necessary) element 8 ('oxygen') from its combining = form 'oxide', meaning a binary compound of oxygen and another element. = ;

Oh yes, sorry= I meant "element 8" =3D "oxygen".  That oxide is meant would be evide= nt if there's more than one oxygen atom in a compound. Or am I wrong about = that? (no chemist either)

Am 03.06.201= 6 um 19:45 schrieb MorphemeAddict <lytlesw@gmail.com>:

There should be a way to distinguish (if nece= ssary) element 8 ('oxygen') from its combining form 'oxide', meaning a bina= ry compound of oxygen and another element. 

stevo

On Fri, Jun 3, = 2016 at 7:49 AM, Niels Tron <hr.muendler@gmail.com> wrot= e:
On Thursday, June 02, 2016 22:53:13 Niels Tron wrote:
So accordingly dioxide would be = simply relyratrbi?

I say "tabno relkijytau"= and "tabno pavykijytau", but for those two chemicals 
I also have = alternate names "bakrygapci" and "mantygapci" (the latter because 
= mantyslami jaurvelvi'u).

I'm certain you would day that, but my approach would be a rather systema= tic one. It would simply state that this is a compound of two times the ato= m of order (proton amount) 8 (which is oxide). 
Of course on= e could use your proposal, but the idea is that by another way ANY atom can= be expressed (in a strictly scientific area or for anyone who doesn't want= to learn some randomly assigned words, copied into the lojban language)

Am 02.06.2016 um 23:56 schrieb Pierre Abbat <phma@bezitopo.org>:<= br>
On Thursday,= June 02, 2016 22:53:13 Niels Tron wrote:
So accordingly dioxide would be simply relyratrbi?

I say "tabno relkijytau" and "tabno pavykijy= tau", but for those two chemicals
I also have alternate na= mes "bakrygapci" and "mantygapci" (the latter because
mant= yslami jaurvelvi'u).

Pierre
--
The Black Garden on the Mountain is not on the Black = Mountain.

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