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From: MorphemeAddict <lytlesw@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2016 15:34:33 -0500
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Subject: Re: [lojban] Nomenclature of the periodic table
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I don't know if it's important to indicate this kind of detail, but it
can't hurt. Maybe it's necessary in chemistry as a whole, so should be in
whatever language is used to describe it.
IUPAC has rules for naming compounds.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_nomenclature

stevo

On Sun, Jun 5, 2016 at 3:23 AM, Niels Tron <hr.muendler@gmail.com> wrote:

> Okay I understand now, but is it important to include this indication in
> lojban? I'm not a chemist so I don't see why it would be important whether
> there are one or more other kinds of atoms..
>
>
>
> Am 05.06.2016 um 09:47 schrieb MorphemeAddict <lytlesw@gmail.com>:
>
> No, 'oxide' isn't used for indicating the number of oxygen atoms in a
> molecule, but rather to indicate that there is only one other kind of atom
> in the molecule besides oxygen, hence the 'binary' I mentioned before.
>
> E.g., carbon dioxide (CO2) has one carbon atom and two oxygen atoms per
> CO2 molecule. The 'two' is indicated by "di-", and the fact that there is
> only one other kind of atom, namely, carbon, is indicated by the "-ide".
> The oxygen is indicated by its supershort combining form "ox-".
>
> This also means that a molecule with three or more different kinds of
> atoms can't be called an "-ide".
>
> stevo
>
> On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 5:12 AM, Niels Tron <hr.muendler@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> There should be a way to distinguish (if necessary) element 8 ('oxygen')
>> from its combining form 'oxide', meaning a binary compound of oxygen and
>> another element.
>>
>>
>> Oh yes, sorry I meant "element 8" = "oxygen".  That oxide is meant would
>> be evident if there's more than one oxygen atom in a compound. Or am I
>> wrong about that? (no chemist either)
>>
>> Am 03.06.2016 um 19:45 schrieb MorphemeAddict <lytlesw@gmail.com>:
>>
>> There should be a way to distinguish (if necessary) element 8 ('oxygen')
>> from its combining form 'oxide', meaning a binary compound of oxygen and
>> another element.
>>
>> stevo
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 7:49 AM, Niels Tron <hr.muendler@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thursday, June 02, 2016 22:53:13 Niels Tron wrote:
>>>
>>> So accordingly dioxide would be simply relyratrbi?
>>>
>>>
>>> I say "tabno relkijytau" and "tabno pavykijytau", but for those two
>>> chemicals
>>> I also have alternate names "bakrygapci" and "mantygapci" (the latter
>>> because
>>> mantyslami jaurvelvi'u).
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm certain you would day that, but my approach would be a rather
>>> systematic one. It would simply state that this is a compound of two times
>>> the atom of order (proton amount) 8 (which is oxide).
>>> Of course one could use your proposal, but the idea is that by another
>>> way ANY atom can be expressed (in a strictly scientific area or for anyone
>>> who doesn't want to learn some randomly assigned words, copied into the
>>> lojban language)
>>>
>>> Am 02.06.2016 um 23:56 schrieb Pierre Abbat <phma@bezitopo.org>:
>>>
>>> On Thursday, June 02, 2016 22:53:13 Niels Tron wrote:
>>>
>>> So accordingly dioxide would be simply relyratrbi?
>>>
>>>
>>> I say "tabno relkijytau" and "tabno pavykijytau", but for those two
>>> chemicals
>>> I also have alternate names "bakrygapci" and "mantygapci" (the latter
>>> because
>>> mantyslami jaurvelvi'u).
>>>
>>> Pierre
>>> --
>>> The Black Garden on the Mountain is not on the Black Mountain.
>>>
>>> --
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>>
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>
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--001a113cf9ecf8978c05348de3fb
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&quot;co=
urier new&quot;,monospace">I don&#39;t know if it&#39;s important to indica=
te this kind of detail, but it can&#39;t hurt. Maybe it&#39;s necessary in =
chemistry as a whole, so should be in whatever language is used to describe=
 it.=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&quot;cou=
rier new&quot;,monospace">IUPAC has rules for naming compounds.=C2=A0</div>=
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D""><font face=3D"courier new, monospac=
e"><a href=3D"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_nomenclature">https://=
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_nomenclature</a></font><br></div><div class=
=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&quot;courier new&quot;,monospace">=
<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&quot;courier n=
ew&quot;,monospace">stevo</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div cl=
ass=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Jun 5, 2016 at 3:23 AM, Niels Tron <span dir=3D=
"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hr.muendler@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">hr.mue=
ndler@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" =
style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><di=
v dir=3D"auto"><div>Okay I understand now, but is it important to include t=
his indication in lojban? I&#39;m not a chemist so I don&#39;t see why it w=
ould be important whether there are one or more other kinds of atoms..<br><=
br><br></div><div><div class=3D"h5"><div><br>Am 05.06.2016 um 09:47 schrieb=
 MorphemeAddict &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lytlesw@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">=
lytlesw@gmail.com</a>&gt;:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div=
 dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier new,=
monospace">No, &#39;oxide&#39; isn&#39;t used for indicating the number of =
oxygen atoms in a molecule, but rather to indicate that there is only one o=
ther kind of atom in the molecule besides oxygen, hence the &#39;binary&#39=
; I mentioned before.=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font=
-family:courier new,monospace"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=
=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace">E.g., carbon dioxide (CO2) has one c=
arbon atom and two oxygen atoms per CO2 molecule. The &#39;two&#39; is indi=
cated by &quot;di-&quot;, and the fact that there is only one other kind of=
 atom, namely, carbon, is indicated by the &quot;-ide&quot;. The oxygen is =
indicated by its supershort combining form &quot;ox-&quot;.=C2=A0</div><div=
 class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace"><br></=
div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace=
">This also means that a molecule with three or more different kinds of ato=
ms can&#39;t be called an &quot;-ide&quot;.=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_=
default" style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace"><br></div><div class=
=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace">stevo=C2=A0<=
/div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat=
, Jun 4, 2016 at 5:12 AM, Niels Tron <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:hr.muendler@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">hr.muendler@gmail.com</a>&gt;</s=
pan> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex=
;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto"><span><div>=
<blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default"><fo=
nt color=3D"#000000"><span style=3D"background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">T=
here should be a way to distinguish (if necessary) element 8 (&#39;oxygen&#=
39;) from its combining form &#39;oxide&#39;, meaning a binary compound of =
oxygen and another element.=C2=A0</span></font></div></div></blockquote><br=
></div></span><div>Oh yes, sorry I meant &quot;element 8&quot; =3D &quot;ox=
ygen&quot;.=C2=A0 That oxide is meant would be evident if there&#39;s more =
than one oxygen atom in a compound. Or am I wrong about that? (no chemist e=
ither)</div><div><div><div><br>Am 03.06.2016 um 19:45 schrieb MorphemeAddic=
t &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lytlesw@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">lytlesw@gmail.=
com</a>&gt;:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><=
div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace">The=
re should be a way to distinguish (if necessary) element 8 (&#39;oxygen&#39=
;) from its combining form &#39;oxide&#39;, meaning a binary compound of ox=
ygen and another element.=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"=
font-family:courier new,monospace"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" s=
tyle=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace">stevo</div></div><div class=3D"g=
mail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 7:49 AM, =
Niels Tron <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hr.muendler@gmail.com" t=
arget=3D"_blank">hr.muendler@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote=
 class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc soli=
d;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto"><span><div><blockquote type=3D"cite">=
<font color=3D"#000000"><span style=3D"background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)=
">On Thursday, June 02, 2016 22:53:13 Niels Tron wrote:<br></span></font><b=
lockquote type=3D"cite"><font color=3D"#000000"><span style=3D"background-c=
olor:rgba(255,255,255,0)">So accordingly dioxide would be simply relyratrbi=
?</span></font></blockquote><font color=3D"#000000"><span style=3D"backgrou=
nd-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><br>I say &quot;tabno relkijytau&quot; and &q=
uot;tabno pavykijytau&quot;, but for those two chemicals=C2=A0<br>I also ha=
ve alternate names &quot;bakrygapci&quot; and &quot;mantygapci&quot; (the l=
atter because=C2=A0<br>mantyslami jaurvelvi&#39;u).</span></font><br></bloc=
kquote><br></div></span><div>I&#39;m certain you would day that, but my app=
roach would be a rather systematic one. It would simply state that this is =
a compound of two times the atom of order (proton amount) 8 (which is oxide=
).=C2=A0</div><div>Of course one could use your proposal, but the idea is t=
hat by another way ANY atom can be expressed (in a strictly scientific area=
 or for anyone who doesn&#39;t want to learn some randomly assigned words, =
copied into the lojban language)</div><span><div><br>Am 02.06.2016 um 23:56=
 schrieb Pierre Abbat &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:phma@bezitopo.org" target=3D"_b=
lank">phma@bezitopo.org</a>&gt;:<br><br></div></span><blockquote type=3D"ci=
te"><div><span><span>On Thursday, June 02, 2016 22:53:13 Niels Tron wrote:<=
/span><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span>So accordingly dioxide would be s=
imply relyratrbi?</span><br></blockquote><span></span><br><span>I say &quot=
;tabno relkijytau&quot; and &quot;tabno pavykijytau&quot;, but for those tw=
o chemicals </span><br><span>I also have alternate names &quot;bakrygapci&q=
uot; and &quot;mantygapci&quot; (the latter because </span><br><span>mantys=
lami jaurvelvi&#39;u).</span><br><span></span><br><span>Pierre</span><br><s=
pan>-- </span><br><span>The Black Garden on the Mountain is not on the Blac=
k Mountain.</span><br><span></span><br><span>-- </span><br></span><span>You=
 received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google =
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