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[2607:f8b0:4003:c06::234]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id k1si404263itb.1.2016.06.11.13.18.36 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 11 Jun 2016 13:18:36 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lytlesw@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4003:c06::234 as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:4003:c06::234; Received: by mail-oi0-x234.google.com with SMTP id w5so79453156oib.2 for ; Sat, 11 Jun 2016 13:18:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.202.84.23 with SMTP id i23mr3713331oib.170.1465676316716; Sat, 11 Jun 2016 13:18:36 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.157.43.43 with HTTP; Sat, 11 Jun 2016 13:18:06 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: MorphemeAddict Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2016 15:18:06 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Nomenclature of the periodic table To: lojban@googlegroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113de31a36c3070535065c63 X-Original-Sender: lytlesw@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lytlesw@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4003:c06::234 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=lytlesw@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Spam-Checked-In-Group: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -1.8 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.8 X-Spam_score_int: -17 X-Spam_bar: - --001a113de31a36c3070535065c63 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Although use of "ratni" with appropriate arguments is clear enough for talking about atoms and elements, phrases such as the example given are also rather long and not especially conducive to use in compounds, either linguistic or chemical. stevo On Sat, Jun 11, 2016 at 1:33 PM, wrote: > > > Em quinta-feira, 2 de junho de 2016 17:31:34 UTC+3, la pluja escreveu: >> >> Something that has bugged me the last few days is the current >> nomenclature of the chemical elements. >> I am relatively new to lojban but what I have learned quite early is that >> lojban tries to name every object/idea/concept systematically. >> So for an example the lojban names for days in a week are named after >> there position in the week. >> Monday (or "is a monday") for example is *pavdei *(a construct of the >> rafsi of pa and djedi), literally "one-day". >> >> On the other hand the current nomenclature of chemical elements >> (https://jbo.wikipedia.org/wiki/dikni_selratni_cartu) is based on their >> trivia names in latin/english or whatsoever. >> >> Why is this? It's like calling monday *mondei * in lojba. >> >> I propose the chemical elements are called by the number of protons in >> their nuclei, which defines the chemical element >> (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_element). >> >> An possible implementation would be to combine the rafsi of the numbers >> with the rafsi of >> >> *ratni. *An example: >> >> *pavrat* >> >> *x1 is an atom of atomic number 1 of isotope number/atomic weight x2; x1 >> is hydrogen of isotope number/atomic weight x2* >> >> >> and/or >> >> >> >> *x1 is a quantity of/contains/is made of hydrogen* >> The latter definition could of course also be made with *gunma* >> or something similar. >> >> Any thoughts on that? >> > > But why not just use e.g. {lo ratni be li pa bei li re} for Deuterium etc.? > For ions like CH3- separate single words could be used of course. > > >> >> (Another proposal which might be discussed is if protons, neutrons and >> such should be called something equivalent to "up-up-down" [proton] >> instead of *protoni * or *nurtoni >> * respectively. Then it would >> be necessary to define unambigious valsi for quantum states ) >> >> I am neither a physician nor an experienced lojbanist but this simply >> bugged me several days, so what do you think of it? >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --001a113de31a36c3070535065c63 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Although use of "ratni" with appropriate arguments= is clear enough for talking about atoms and elements, phrases such as the = example given are also rather long and not especially conducive to use in c= ompounds, either linguistic or chemical.=C2=A0

stevo
=

On Sat, Jun 11, 2= 016 at 1:33 PM, <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote= :

<= br>Em quinta-feira, 2 de junho de 2016 17:31:34 UTC+3, la pluja escreveu:<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;border= -left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Something that has = bugged me the last few days is the current nomenclature of the chemical ele= ments.
I am relatively new to lojban but what I have learned quite early= is that lojban tries to name every object/idea/concept systematically.
= So for an example the lojban names for days in a week are named after there= position in the week.
Monday (or "is a monday") for example i= s pavdei (a construct of the rafsi of pa and djedi), literally "= ;one-day".

On the other hand the current nomenclature of chemic= al elements (https://jbo.wikipedia.org/wiki/dikni_selratni_cartu) is= based on their trivia names in latin/english or whatsoever.

Why is = this? It's like calling monday mondei in lojba.

I propos= e the chemical elements are called by the number of protons in their nuclei= , which defines the chemical element (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chem= ical_element).

An possible implementation would be to combine th= e rafsi of the numbers with the rafsi of ratni.

An example:
=C2=A0pavrat
= x1 is an atom of atomic number 1 of isotope number/atomic weight x2; x1 is hydrogen of isotope number/atomic weight x2
= =C2=A0
and/or

x= 1 is a quantity of/contains/is made of hydrogen

The latter= definition could of course also be made with gunma o= r something similar.

Any thoughts on that?

But why not just use e.g. {lo ratni be li pa bei li= re} for Deuterium etc.?
For ions like CH3- separate single words= could be used of course.
=C2=A0

(Another proposal which = might be discussed is if protons, neutrons and such should be called someth= ing equivalent to "up-up-down" [proton]
instead of protoni or nurtoni respectively. Then = it would be necessary to define unambigious valsi for quantum states )
<= br>I am neither a physician nor an experienced lojbanist but this simply bu= gged me several days, so what do you think of it?

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--
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