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Subject: Re: [lojban] sumti-raising cmavo thingy
From: Jacob Errington <jake@mail.jerrington.me>
In-Reply-To: <CACtk4+CbTR=SbyAM+5GLPz0kO52KHL3Th=XgrYXQsu200WFmNA@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2016 09:16:32 -0400
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.i coi ro do

> On Jul 12, 2016, at 6:08 AM, Bruno Panasiewicz <ciuak.prog@gmail.com> wro=
te:
>=20
> Just like { mi cizra }, which needs a {jai} (because I'm not an event), {=
 lo briju cu minde } should also be fixed with a {jai}-like cmavo, X. X, co=
ntrary to {jai}, would be in SE (because we don't need to use the {jai}-plu=
s-sumtcita feature).
> In order to fix the example, we'd say {zo'ei lo briju cu minde} (which is=
 not very natural), or, using X, {lo briju cu X minde}.
>=20
> Explaining it with a simple relation might help:
>=20
>  tu'a : jai : (kai'a) ::
> zoi'e :  X  :    Y
>=20
> It's also worth considering the Y, because it could be useful.

Agreed. A {jai}-like cmavo to perform the action of {zo'ei} would be pretty=
 cool.

First, I would like to point to {jai'a}[1] (in its own selma'o) which latro=
'a and I coined quite a while ago to promote arbitrary LAhE into selbri tra=
nsformers. Being able to promote LAhE is cumbersome though, and I think tha=
t a {jai}-like {zo'ei} would be enough in practice.

Second, I say "selbri transformer" because although SE can act as selbri tr=
ansformers, they are overloaded to also operate on BAI (or more generally t=
ags) and on connectives. That being said there is a tradeoff to be made in =
deciding whether the new cmavo should be in SE or in a new selma'o. Specifi=
cally, by placing it in SE without coming up with (ideally useful) semantic=
s about its interactions with tags and connectives opens the door to new ki=
nds of nonsense. On the other hand, everybody understands SE and adding sel=
ma'o should be done lightly.

Finally, I don't know what {kai'a} means. Could someone add it to jbovlaste=
?

.i mi'e la tsani mu'o

[1] http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/dict/jai'a

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