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Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2016 09:34:48 +0200
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Subject: Re: [lojban] burned-out light bulbs and other things
From: Bruno Panasiewicz <ciuak.prog@gmail.com>
To: mriste <lojban@googlegroups.com>
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On Jul 14, 2016 1:45 AM, "Pierre Abbat" <phma@bezitopo.org> wrote:
>
> On Thursday, July 07, 2016 15:08:38 Bruno Panasiewicz wrote:
> > I don't agree. {fliba} is more or less agentive, which means that the
lujvo
> > is kind of wrong. It most likely would be interpreted as failing to
melt.
> >
> > I think that "to fail because of melting" is too specific. It's enough
to
> > create a lujvo meaning "to fail to emit' =3D dirce zei spofu =3D di'erp=
o'u
(x1
> > fails to emit x2 under conditions x3), or maybe "to fail to
> > be-the-source-of-light" =3D tergusni zei spofu =3D terguspo'u (x1 is a
broken
> > light source; fails to illuminate x2 with light x3), indeed using
{spofu}
> > as Michael Turnianski proposed. Then we can use a tanru with {runme}.
> >
> > Your example would be
> > i cumki falonu lo boltergu'i cu na'e runme terguspo'ubi'o
> > or
> > i cumki falonu lo boltergu'i cu farlu terguspo'ubi'o
> > I wouldn't use {ka'e} here, because it is more of a potential than a
> > possibility. Also added -bi'o-, which could've been accomplished with
> > {binxo} as a tanru unit.
>
> "runme terguspo'ubi'o" is rather long. The meaning I intend is not
specific to
> light bulbs, but can also be done by fuses and a part of sprinklers (the
valve
> is held closed by a part which melts in a fire, letting water onto the
fire).
> How would you say it?

I'd go for runme cando bo gasnu =3D rumcadborgau: x1 makes x2 idle by melti=
ng
x3 x4. or even without bo =3D rumcadgau. I make an assumption that the meta=
l
part is agentive.

Going the other way: cando rinka runme =3D cadrikrunme: x1 melts in t x2 an=
d
p x3, turning x4 off; or spofu rinka runme =3D pofrikrunme: x1 melts in t x=
2
p x3, breaking x4 in function x5.
If you want to use it for a fuse, go for cadrikrunme, because when a fuse
melts, it cuts off electricity, not necessarily breaking the whole system.
For a light bulb's wire, pofrikrunme =E2=80=94 when it melts, it breaks the=
 whole
thing.

>
> > i ko na ecnu tau lo karce i lo relxima cu be fo li pa ki'o zabna zmadu
>
> ki'a

i zo tu'a zo tau se basti i zo ecnu tordu panra zo terve'u i zo relxima
go'i zo relxisma'e i zo be na'o zvati lo tolfa'o be lo selbri
i lo mi bangu do jai cfipu za'a

>
> Pierre
> --
> The gostak pelled at the fostin lutt for darfs for her martle plave.
> The darfs had smibbed, the lutt was thale, and the pilter had nothing
snave.

je'e

mi'e la uakcki mu'o

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<p dir=3D"ltr"><br>
On Jul 14, 2016 1:45 AM, &quot;Pierre Abbat&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:phm=
a@bezitopo.org">phma@bezitopo.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; On Thursday, July 07, 2016 15:08:38 Bruno Panasiewicz wrote:<br>
&gt; &gt; I don&#39;t agree. {fliba} is more or less agentive, which means =
that the lujvo<br>
&gt; &gt; is kind of wrong. It most likely would be interpreted as failing =
to melt.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; I think that &quot;to fail because of melting&quot; is too specif=
ic. It&#39;s enough to<br>
&gt; &gt; create a lujvo meaning &quot;to fail to emit&#39; =3D dirce zei s=
pofu =3D di&#39;erpo&#39;u (x1<br>
&gt; &gt; fails to emit x2 under conditions x3), or maybe &quot;to fail to<=
br>
&gt; &gt; be-the-source-of-light&quot; =3D tergusni zei spofu =3D terguspo&=
#39;u (x1 is a broken<br>
&gt; &gt; light source; fails to illuminate x2 with light x3), indeed using=
 {spofu}<br>
&gt; &gt; as Michael Turnianski proposed. Then we can use a tanru with {run=
me}.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; Your example would be<br>
&gt; &gt; i cumki falonu lo boltergu&#39;i cu na&#39;e runme terguspo&#39;u=
bi&#39;o<br>
&gt; &gt; or<br>
&gt; &gt; i cumki falonu lo boltergu&#39;i cu farlu terguspo&#39;ubi&#39;o<=
br>
&gt; &gt; I wouldn&#39;t use {ka&#39;e} here, because it is more of a poten=
tial than a<br>
&gt; &gt; possibility. Also added -bi&#39;o-, which could&#39;ve been accom=
plished with<br>
&gt; &gt; {binxo} as a tanru unit.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &quot;runme terguspo&#39;ubi&#39;o&quot; is rather long. The meaning I=
 intend is not specific to<br>
&gt; light bulbs, but can also be done by fuses and a part of sprinklers (t=
he valve<br>
&gt; is held closed by a part which melts in a fire, letting water onto the=
 fire).<br>
&gt; How would you say it?</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">I&#39;d go for runme cando bo gasnu =3D rumcadborgau: x1 mak=
es x2 idle by melting x3 x4. or even without bo =3D rumcadgau. I make an as=
sumption that the metal part is agentive.</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">Going the other way: cando rinka runme =3D cadrikrunme: x1 m=
elts in t x2 and p x3, turning x4 off; or spofu rinka runme =3D pofrikrunme=
: x1 melts in t x2 p x3, breaking x4 in function x5.<br>
If you want to use it for a fuse, go for cadrikrunme, because when a fuse m=
elts, it cuts off electricity, not necessarily breaking the whole system. F=
or a light bulb&#39;s wire, pofrikrunme =E2=80=94 when it melts, it breaks =
the whole thing.</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; i ko na ecnu tau lo karce i lo relxima cu be fo li pa ki&#39;o za=
bna zmadu<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; ki&#39;a</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">i zo tu&#39;a zo tau se basti i zo ecnu tordu panra zo terve=
&#39;u i zo relxima go&#39;i zo relxisma&#39;e i zo be na&#39;o zvati lo to=
lfa&#39;o be lo selbri<br>
i lo mi bangu do jai cfipu za&#39;a</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">&gt;<br>
&gt; Pierre<br>
&gt; --<br>
&gt; The gostak pelled at the fostin lutt for darfs for her martle plave.<b=
r>
&gt; The darfs had smibbed, the lutt was thale, and the pilter had nothing =
snave.</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">je&#39;e</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">mi&#39;e la uakcki mu&#39;o</p>

<p></p>

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