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[2a00:1450:4010:c07::22b]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id o85si211391wme.0.2016.07.29.05.36.06 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 29 Jul 2016 05:36:06 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of ciuak.prog@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4010:c07::22b as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:4010:c07::22b; Received: by mail-lf0-x22b.google.com with SMTP id f93so70331752lfi.2 for ; Fri, 29 Jul 2016 05:36:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.25.22.152 with SMTP id 24mr15325692lfw.180.1469795766318; Fri, 29 Jul 2016 05:36:06 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.25.3.203 with HTTP; Fri, 29 Jul 2016 05:36:05 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Bruno Panasiewicz Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 14:36:05 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: explicit tanru To: mriste Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a114083068b3d920538c57e53 X-Original-Sender: ciuak.prog@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of ciuak.prog@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4010:c07::22b as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=ciuak.prog@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Spam-Checked-In-Group: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -1.8 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.8 X-Spam_score_int: -17 X-Spam_bar: - --001a114083068b3d920538c57e53 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =E2=80=8Bla gleki di'e ciska: =E2=80=8B =E2=80=8B > > > Em sexta-feira, 29 de julho de 2016 11:57:49 UTC+3, la uakci escreveu: > =E2=80=8BWhat language is this header in? > coi jbozabna >> >> In Lojban, all tanru are made by putting two (or more; technically one >> brivla also >> makes for a tanru, but anyway) brivla next to each other. >> >> I'm considering something of a dialect/preference/whatever that would >> require a tanru >> to be enclosed in {ke} to make it a tanru; otherwise, it would break int= o >> two selbri. >> For example, {lo blanu stizu} would parse as { [CU stizu >> VAU]} >> > > Maybe instead use alternatives to LE? > E.g. > {.i blanu bu stizu} already works like that. > =E2=80=8BGood point, but while {bu} eats one word, *hypothetical cmavo* sho= uld eat one selbrisle. (Of course assuming that a {ke}-{ke'e} =E2=80=8Bbracket counts as selbrisle= .) > > > >> , and to >> express the intended 'blue chair', it'd be required to say {lo ke blanu >> stizu}. >> > > How would tanru containing >=3D3 selbrisle work? Would {lo blanu broda > broda} parse as {lo blanu cu broda broda}? > =E2=80=8BThat wouldn't parse here. Think about it in terms of a grammar: jufra =3D sumti* selbri sumti* / sumti* sumti =3D LE selbri selbri =3D KE brivla* KEhE? / brivla {lo blanu stizu} parses as: jufra | +---------+ | | sumti selbri | | +--+ brivla | | | LE selbri | | | | | brivla | | | | =3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D lo blanu stizu (regular Lojban: lo blanu cu stizu) (Apologies for the cheesy ASCII tree, but anyways.) {lo ke blanu stizu}: jufra | sumti | +--+ | | LE selbri | | | +--+------+ | | | | | KE brivla brivla | | | | =3D=3D =3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D lo ke blanu stizu (regular: lo blanu cu stizu) Your {lo blanu broda broda} doesn't parse - it'd parse to this point: jufra | +---------+------+ | | | sumti selbri sumti | | | +--+ brivla LE | | | | LE selbri | | | | | | | brivla | | | | | | =3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D lo blanu broda broda!? That doesn't match (as you can see), since {broda} isn't among the selma'o BRIVLA (let's pretend BRIVLA is a selma'o). If we add NU, then your proposed thingy would work in context. It's also possible for an unmatching brivla to start a new bridi, with the {.i} elided: selsku =3D (I* jufra)* Then: selsku | +----------------+ | | jufra jufra | | +---------+ selbri | | | sumti selbri brivla | | | +--+ brivla | | | | | LE selbri | | | | | | | brivla | | | | | | =3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D lo blanu broda broda (regular: lo blanu cu broda .i broda) Hope it makes sense. ~ mi'e la uakci mu'o re'i .i .e'e ma'a jbokei gi'e nai jboke'i ~ > > What do you think about such a convention? >> >> ~ mi'e la uakci mu'o re'i .e'e sai >> .i lo fanmo selsku be mi cu binxo co ke du'e va'e clani cai ~ >> > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --001a114083068b3d920538c57e53 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=E2=80=8Bla gleki di= 'e ciska:
=E2=80=8B
=E2=80=8B


Em sext= a-feira, 29 de julho de 2016 11:57:49 UTC+3, la uakci escreveu:

=E2=80=8BWhat language is this header in?

= =C2=A0
coi jboza= bna

In Lojban, = all tanru are made by putting two (or more; technically one brivla also
=
makes for a tanru, but= anyway) brivla next to each other.

I'm considering something of a dialect/preference/= whatever that would require a tanru
to be enclosed in {ke} to make it a tanru; otherwise, it w= ould break into two selbri.
For example, {lo blanu stizu} would parse as {<lo blanu KU> = [CU stizu VAU]}

Maybe in= stead use alternatives to LE?
E.g.=C2=A0
{.i blanu bu s= tizu} already works like that.

=E2=80=8BGood = point, but while {bu} eats one word, *hypothetical cmavo* should eat one se= lbrisle.
(Of course assuming that a {ke}-{ke'e} =E2=80=8Bbracket c= ounts as selbrisle.)

=C2=A0

=C2=A0
, and to
=
express the intended 'bl= ue chair', it'd be required to say {lo ke blanu stizu}.

How would tanru containing >= =3D3 selbrisle work? Would {lo blanu broda broda} parse as {lo blanu cu bro= da broda}?

=E2=80=8BThat wouldn't parse he= re. Think about it in terms of a grammar:

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 jufra= =3D sumti* selbri sumti* / sumti*
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 sumti =3D LE sel= bri
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 selbri =3D KE brivla* KEhE? / brivla
<= div style=3D"font-family:monospace,monospace" class=3D"gmail_default">
<= /div>
{lo blanu stizu} parses as:

jufra
|
+---------+
|=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 |
sumti=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 selbr= i
|=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |
+--+=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 brivla
|=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=
LE selbri |
|=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |
|=C2=A0= brivla |
|=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |
=3D=3D =3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=C2=A0 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
lo blanu=C2=A0 stizu
(regular Loj= ban: lo blanu cu stizu)

(Apologies for the cheesy ASCII tree, bu= t anyways.)

{lo ke blanu stizu}:

jufra
|
sumti|
+--+
|=C2=A0 |
LE selbri
|=C2=A0 |
|=C2=A0 +--+------= +
|=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |
|=C2=A0 KE bri= vla brivla
|=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |
=3D=3D = =3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=C2=A0 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
lo ke blanu=C2=A0 stizu
(regular: lo blanu cu stizu)

Your {lo blanu broda broda} doe= sn't parse - it'd parse to this point:

jufra
|
+----= -----+------+
|=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |
sumti=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 selbri sumti<= br>|=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 |
+--+=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 brivla LE
|=C2= =A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |
= LE selbri |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |
|=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |
|=C2=A0 brivla |=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |
|=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |
=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=C2=A0 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=C2= =A0 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
lo blanu=C2=A0 broda=C2=A0 broda!?

That d= oesn't match (as you can see), since {broda} isn't among the selma&= #39;o BRIVLA
(let's pretend BRIVLA is a selma'o).

If= we add NU, then your proposed thingy would work in context.
It's = also possible for an unmatching brivla to start a new bridi, with the {.i} = elided:

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 selsku =3D (I* jufra)*

<= div style=3D"font-family:monospace,monospace" class=3D"gmail_default">Then:=

selsku
|
+----------------+
|=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |
=
jufr= a=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 jufra|=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |
+---------+=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 selbri<= br>
|=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0 |
sumti=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 selbri brivla
|=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |
+--+=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 brivla |
|=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |
LE selbri |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 |
|=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |
|=C2=A0 brivla |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |
=
|=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=
=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=C2=A0 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=C2=A0 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
<= /div>lo blanu=C2=A0 broda=C2=A0 broda
(regular: lo blanu cu broda .i b= roda)

Hope it makes sense.

~ mi'e la uakci mu'o r= e'i
=C2=A0 .i .e'e ma'a jbokei gi'e nai jboke'i ~<= br>



What do you think about such a convention?
~ mi'e la uak= ci mu'o re'i .e'e sai
=C2=A0 .i lo fanmo selsku be mi cu binxo co ke du'e va&#= 39;e clani cai ~

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