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From: uakci <ciuak.prog@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 09:11:01 +0200
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Subject: Re: [lojban] -bom-/-nom- & KE
To: mriste <lojban@googlegroups.com>
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On Aug 25, 2016 1:19 AM, "Curtis Franks" <curtis.w.franks@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > it should be a rafsi of a cmavo of KE!
> > >
> > > But NU and KEI behave the same way as rafsi. Now, they could work as
KE/KEhE, but it does not seem necessary to me.
> > >
> > > > Here's the question: would it be useful to have a KE that works
like -bom-/-nom- - turns the enclosed selbrisle into a selbrisle, the
meaning of which is the thing named by those selbrisle?
> > >
> > > I would imagine so. It would not hurt, anyway.  It also seems
natural, especially if these rafsi were to exist. It kind of weirds me out
to have rafsi which exist in no other form (meaning that no truly complete
veljvo may be formed). I would just ask that the cmavo selrafsi be fo la
.lojban. are similar to these rafsi (meaning that they begin with a "b" or
"n" respectively, and that they contain an "o" in them; I would also like
them to look somewhat mutually similar).
>
> > But, syntactically, -bom- and -nom- work as KE and KEhE respectively,
and it wouldn't make sense making *another* KEhE.
>
> How are you figuring that out?  From lujvo alone?  If so, it is still not
clear to me that what you say is actually the case. Abstractions can kind
of work the same way when being compressed from veljvo into the rafsi in a
lujvo. Could you just elaborate on your reasoning? You might be right; I
just do not know.

Well, first of all, -bom- and -nom- work as opening and closing brackets,
the only difference being that they do something to the enclosed stuff.
This is one clue it could be KE. Then, they can be skipped at the beginning
or end. Try to do that with NU:

kurtynomvla =E2=9C=94
kurtykepyvla =E2=9C=94 (it's described in CLL)
kurtykezvla =E2=9D=8C

That's my reasoning.

>
> But, really, selma'o assignment is a secondary concern. These words seem
to deserve selrafsi.

I agree.

>
> ___
>
> > > > whatever the kurtV gismu is
> > >
> > > What /is/ it? I have always said "kurti" in my head, but I am dying
to know what others use. ;)
> > Well, I guess that's the most probable one... or is it? Maybe it's an
-o-ending culture gismu:
> >
> > kurto: x1 reflects Kurtis' language/culture in aspect x2.
>
> I could get on board with that.

You shall.

~ uakci

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<p dir=3D"ltr"></p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">On Aug 25, 2016 1:19 AM, &quot;Curtis Franks&quot; &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:curtis.w.franks@gmail.com">curtis.w.franks@gmail.com</a>&gt; w=
rote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; it should be a rafsi of a cmavo of KE!<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; But NU and KEI behave the same way as rafsi. Now, they could=
 work as KE/KEhE, but it does not seem necessary to me.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Here&#39;s the question: would it be useful to have a K=
E that works like -bom-/-nom- - turns the enclosed selbrisle into a selbris=
le, the meaning of which is the thing named by those selbrisle?<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; I would imagine so. It would not hurt, anyway.=C2=A0 It also=
 seems natural, especially if these rafsi were to exist. It kind of weirds =
me out to have rafsi which exist in no other form (meaning that no truly co=
mplete veljvo may be formed). I would just ask that the cmavo selrafsi be f=
o la .lojban. are similar to these rafsi (meaning that they begin with a &q=
uot;b&quot; or &quot;n&quot; respectively, and that they contain an &quot;o=
&quot; in them; I would also like them to look somewhat mutually similar).<=
br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; But, syntactically, -bom- and -nom- work as KE and KEhE respectiv=
ely, and it wouldn&#39;t make sense making *another* KEhE.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; How are you figuring that out?=C2=A0 From lujvo alone?=C2=A0 If so, it=
 is still not clear to me that what you say is actually the case. Abstracti=
ons can kind of work the same way when being compressed from veljvo into th=
e rafsi in a lujvo. Could you just elaborate on your reasoning? You might b=
e right; I just do not know.</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">Well, first of all, -bom- and -nom- work as opening and clos=
ing brackets, the only difference being that they do something to the enclo=
sed stuff. This is one clue it could be KE. Then, they can be skipped at th=
e beginning or end. Try to do that with NU:</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">kurtynomvla =E2=9C=94<br>
kurtykepyvla =E2=9C=94 (it&#39;s described in CLL)<br>
kurtykezvla =E2=9D=8C</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">That&#39;s my reasoning.<br></p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">&gt;<br>
&gt; But, really, selma&#39;o assignment is a secondary concern. These word=
s seem to deserve selrafsi.</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">I agree.</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">&gt;<br>
&gt; ___<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; whatever the kurtV gismu is<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; What /is/ it? I have always said &quot;kurti&quot; in my hea=
d, but I am dying to know what others use. ;)<br>
&gt; &gt; Well, I guess that&#39;s the most probable one... or is it? Maybe=
 it&#39;s an -o-ending culture gismu:<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; kurto: x1 reflects Kurtis&#39; language/culture in aspect x2.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I could get on board with that.</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">You shall.</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">~ uakci</p>

<p></p>

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