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Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: taking action
Thread-Topic: [lojban] Re: taking action
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> Sadly I often spend a lot of
> effort introducing a newcomer to the language (teaching grammar, giving
> learning advice, supplying useful links) only to find them never return.

Have we kept track of these individuals and asked them why they left?

Usually there are detractors that cause people to lose interest - were they not engaged enough?


Part of this mentoring concept should be "check-ups" and surveys about what can be improved to keep them engaged, I think.

________________________________
From: lojban@googlegroups.com <lojban@googlegroups.com> on behalf of selpahi <seladwa@gmx.de>
Sent: Friday, 2 September 2016 10:03 PM
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: taking action

On 02.09.2016 01:19, suzanys wrote:
>
>     I think a more formalised/explicit/organised mentoring process might
>     help bring the community closer together. It might help retain more
>     learners and form more invested friendships.
>
>
> That's a great idea! As a new learner, it'd be great to have someone to
> help introduce and integrate me into the community. Maybe another
> approach would be to pair new learners together. I'm not sure which
> would work better!

We could try both.

I suppose the latter approach would include maintaining a list of people
currently learning (preferably along with their geographic location) so
we don't have to go asking around for a matching study partner whenever
a new person "finds us".

Mentoring is a great concept - in theory. Sadly I often spend a lot of
effort introducing a newcomer to the language (teaching grammar, giving
learning advice, supplying useful links) only to find them never return.
It seems to me that people stick around if they want to, and it doesn't
matter much (generally, though there are of course counter-examples) how
much you try to help them. If they care about the language they will
stay and keep studying, and if they never cared that much, no amount of
mentoring, motivating, supporting, will make them stay. I do not have
enough fingers on my hands and feet combined to count the people who
seemed like they were serious about the language and then dropped off
the face of the earth despite having made good progress and having
received plenty of help and encouragement.

I don't believe this is a phenomenon that is specific to the Lojban
community. It is, however, one that the Lojban community suffers from.

> In addition, I would absolutely love having a voice chat room available
> (like TeamSpeak or Mumble) which wasn't solely in Lojban. I wanted to
> participate in the Sunday chats, but I got the feeling that they'd
> mostly just be in Lojban with experienced speakers. Having an open voice
> chat room is a low-investment way to practice speaking Lojban for the
> new dweebs like me. It's more personal than IRC and might be good for
> building up the community. It's pretty low-investment either way.

Oh yes, definitely. selckiku did that a bunch of times, and I remember
tsani teaching menturi via Mumble, and I taught a few people there as
well, but it was always spontaneous.

We did try establishing a habit of being on Mumble everyday, but it kind
of fizzled out. When nobody else joins for days or weeks it starts to
look pointless.

There's also the very real problem that almost all of the most
experienced speakers now live in Europe, so time zone differences start
to matter.

Any ideas how to improve the situation?

~~~mi'e la selpa'i

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<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-=
1">
<style type=3D"text/css" style=3D"display:none;"><!-- P {margin-top:0;margi=
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<div id=3D"divtagdefaultwrapper" style=3D"font-size:10pt;color:#000000;back=
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<p><b>&gt; </b><font size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;"><b>Sadly I =
often spend a lot of
<br>
&gt; effort introducing a newcomer to the language (teaching grammar, givin=
g <br>
&gt; learning advice, supplying useful links) only to find them never retur=
n.&nbsp;</b></span></font></p>
<br>
Have we kept track of these individuals and <span>asked them why they left?=
</span><br>
<p>Usually there are detractors that cause people to lose interest - were t=
hey not engaged enough?</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Part of this mentoring concept should be &quot;check-ups&quot; and surve=
ys about what can be improved to keep them engaged, I think.<br>
</p>
<br>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div>
<hr tabindex=3D"-1" style=3D"display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id=3D"x_divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font style=3D"font-size:11pt" face=
=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" color=3D"#000000"><b>From:</b> lojban@googlegroups=
.com &lt;lojban@googlegroups.com&gt; on behalf of selpahi &lt;seladwa@gmx.d=
e&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, 2 September 2016 10:03 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> lojban@googlegroups.com<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [lojban] Re: taking action</font>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
</div>
</div>
<font size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;">
<div class=3D"PlainText">On 02.09.2016 01:19, suzanys wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I think a more formalised/explicit/organised m=
entoring process might<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; help bring the community closer together. It m=
ight help retain more<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; learners and form more invested friendships.<b=
r>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; That's a great idea! As a new learner, it'd be great to have someone t=
o<br>
&gt; help introduce and integrate me into the community. Maybe another<br>
&gt; approach would be to pair new learners together. I'm not sure which<br=
>
&gt; would work better!<br>
<br>
We could try both.<br>
<br>
I suppose the latter approach would include maintaining a list of people <b=
r>
currently learning (preferably along with their geographic location) so <br=
>
we don't have to go asking around for a matching study partner whenever <br=
>
a new person &quot;finds us&quot;.<br>
<br>
Mentoring is a great concept - in theory. Sadly I often spend a lot of <br>
effort introducing a newcomer to the language (teaching grammar, giving <br=
>
learning advice, supplying useful links) only to find them never return. <b=
r>
It seems to me that people stick around if they want to, and it doesn't <br=
>
matter much (generally, though there are of course counter-examples) how <b=
r>
much you try to help them. If they care about the language they will <br>
stay and keep studying, and if they never cared that much, no amount of <br=
>
mentoring, motivating, supporting, will make them stay. I do not have <br>
enough fingers on my hands and feet combined to count the people who <br>
seemed like they were serious about the language and then dropped off <br>
the face of the earth despite having made good progress and having <br>
received plenty of help and encouragement.<br>
<br>
I don't believe this is a phenomenon that is specific to the Lojban <br>
community. It is, however, one that the Lojban community suffers from.<br>
<br>
&gt; In addition, I would absolutely love having a voice chat room availabl=
e<br>
&gt; (like TeamSpeak or Mumble) which wasn't solely in Lojban. I wanted to<=
br>
&gt; participate in the Sunday chats, but I got the feeling that they'd<br>
&gt; mostly just be in Lojban with experienced speakers. Having an open voi=
ce<br>
&gt; chat room is a low-investment way to practice speaking Lojban for the<=
br>
&gt; new dweebs like me. It's more personal than IRC and might be good for<=
br>
&gt; building up the community. It's pretty low-investment either way.<br>
<br>
Oh yes, definitely. selckiku did that a bunch of times, and I remember <br>
tsani teaching menturi via Mumble, and I taught a few people there as <br>
well, but it was always spontaneous.<br>
<br>
We did try establishing a habit of being on Mumble everyday, but it kind <b=
r>
of fizzled out. When nobody else joins for days or weeks it starts to <br>
look pointless.<br>
<br>
There's also the very real problem that almost all of the most <br>
experienced speakers now live in Europe, so time zone differences start <br=
>
to matter.<br>
<br>
Any ideas how to improve the situation?<br>
<br>
~~~mi'e la selpa'i<br>
<br>
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