Received: from mail-qt0-f183.google.com ([209.85.216.183]:34606) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.86) (envelope-from ) id 1bj5UC-000852-63 for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Sun, 11 Sep 2016 07:12:00 -0700 Received: by mail-qt0-f183.google.com with SMTP id 11sf52968346qtc.1 for ; Sun, 11 Sep 2016 07:11:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=sender:date:from:to:cc:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject :mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=biz2Wy+r6y1ku82Aw9UWQUZl36H4866/ad4CThpe+Qc=; b=xi5wWxI6q5Uf+rAWrpOelOIzBIEmWzo5LGC1nyouSVbrJffi6PW386u6UjygkHIg4K 0RJHccKKcQM1kzJRfN5ITzU4Xl5kPu3+oHb7UkmtBQ5raXl+PVSRtK+vOx2cZi5badEw b7T9ogTyNSqHHGwaiJVEegEqToRcq4zCpfo5LtXBEoirLDpN7hhH5Zz2erCakRSkncKh Nvmk7tqqnCwjnv75TQnewWJt2EI6YMCnrKuMiQg+flxQJTBhngZJIaiLxBU2Xqur0RrM 1oY2X4vCpeV6eQOHloPGWQGb2CQRIYLs3aPdDvprdxePpow3wh+uoOnJ9cCYGnidUUV3 emNA== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:cc:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject :mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=biz2Wy+r6y1ku82Aw9UWQUZl36H4866/ad4CThpe+Qc=; b=cVhUWnj/+x2ouXCZ3jd3AJJBXSas32dahJXDLWstfs3pew9LlAq6qxgBTyniZ22yT8 ZV7VXxmiD5XfESAoQbVXcS7UG1KAu4sZfzYZyhA65hWtfZnQjZ36mwLgcUGJdf7UeUpn dYOESmwQ2Tdraa0XxIAFSqAFcJHl/KweUhLlI1g11SjiXfRmnh2Pw3vobsEQRaAAlzAI O8ZJ6XtsLRd9euM0f0DiQhFlgeJKsnZMdlZCveLvfmLqw3VfZKno1QhFFLsp0c3urxcc sUQg7WHVBzwwZGqjjEuJpT+tV4XyCjJUQJS32f3forkPzaROAGveCs1bAAD0AWhp5Jp8 zafw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=sender:x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:cc:message-id:in-reply-to :references:subject:mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post :list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=biz2Wy+r6y1ku82Aw9UWQUZl36H4866/ad4CThpe+Qc=; b=gLIBcoD9TqLSlkOV+UtxKAvKHQRYh36Vrdhwq0YndmI2jHvwwdLdQ2XGz9Vqk1foWA C7WyoAd/QitTlkQ8XDzz0i+W4RZbX5qbHHcxHvsJC6HP3utmquA5QeyiyiinmZptdbNI mZOynwLh9XGK686I6TX3PKV0nqxHvT0rhGOMSYd4AsuPYtvhliNNL2L/D7VvgWuxaIv6 wV5XvpaXK/GuAcAN/y8PNzRUnJMA/mzd7lMp72PTzD5LqNHKTSs2RJzyDgkM6KvtRfMw lRtxHC+Xux/yD2GG//43HQxAQzpvhh2z0jMgKox2dO7ubxn4qLeRV05yWnPSK27uOaSB Y5ZQ== Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Gm-Message-State: AE9vXwNZsVJbBSnMcqSP/gWNRZbVgxaMC4d6l1Yj9Engpj0xd+QoTxLb7URSx+RsDoZ8AA== X-Received: by 10.157.16.21 with SMTP id h21mr835304ote.18.1473603110152; Sun, 11 Sep 2016 07:11:50 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.157.46.36 with SMTP id q33ls8423431otb.33.gmail; Sun, 11 Sep 2016 07:11:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.157.11.239 with SMTP id 102mr268045oth.8.1473603109785; Sun, 11 Sep 2016 07:11:49 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2016 07:11:49 -0700 (PDT) From: gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com To: lojban Cc: timothy.lawrence@connect.qut.edu.au Message-Id: <35eca2b1-3fff-4d98-a96a-d5fa3d901706@googlegroups.com> In-Reply-To: References: <5c54abfb-4ed7-5238-d336-4c81bbc4adbb@gmx.de>,<4bdc0b5c-a86d-4421-90c8-8156279ddb9b@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: taking action MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_4702_1522133437.1473603109570" X-Original-Sender: gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Spam-Checked-In-Group: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -1.8 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.8 X-Spam_score_int: -17 X-Spam_bar: - ------=_Part_4702_1522133437.1473603109570 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_4703_1086313851.1473603109571" ------=_Part_4703_1086313851.1473603109571 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Em domingo, 11 de setembro de 2016 11:29:12 UTC+3, Timothy Lawrence escreveu: > > I would be happy for a new low-key, non-recorded Lojban-English channel > that occurs at a different time (in Australia, I am always asleep when the > current Mumble chats run, from memory). I would certainly make effort to > use it :) > Start a new thread with suggestion for a different time. > ------------------------------ > *From:* loj...@googlegroups.com > on behalf of suzanys > > *Sent:* Sunday, 4 September 2016 2:10 AM > *To:* lojban > *Subject:* Re: [lojban] Re: taking action > > Could we just add a channel to the existing Mumble server for new speakers > that is a mix of English and Lojban? I'd love to practice speaking but it's > a bit intimidating to go to all Lojban-or-nothing at my level. > > On Friday, September 2, 2016 at 8:03:27 AM UTC-4, selpa'i wrote: >> >> On 02.09.2016 01:19, suzanys wrote: >> > >> > I think a more formalised/explicit/organised mentoring process >> might >> > help bring the community closer together. It might help retain more >> > learners and form more invested friendships. >> > >> > >> > That's a great idea! As a new learner, it'd be great to have someone to >> > help introduce and integrate me into the community. Maybe another >> > approach would be to pair new learners together. I'm not sure which >> > would work better! >> >> We could try both. >> >> I suppose the latter approach would include maintaining a list of people >> currently learning (preferably along with their geographic location) so >> we don't have to go asking around for a matching study partner whenever >> a new person "finds us". >> >> Mentoring is a great concept - in theory. Sadly I often spend a lot of >> effort introducing a newcomer to the language (teaching grammar, giving >> learning advice, supplying useful links) only to find them never return. >> It seems to me that people stick around if they want to, and it doesn't >> matter much (generally, though there are of course counter-examples) how >> much you try to help them. If they care about the language they will >> stay and keep studying, and if they never cared that much, no amount of >> mentoring, motivating, supporting, will make them stay. I do not have >> enough fingers on my hands and feet combined to count the people who >> seemed like they were serious about the language and then dropped off >> the face of the earth despite having made good progress and having >> received plenty of help and encouragement. >> >> I don't believe this is a phenomenon that is specific to the Lojban >> community. It is, however, one that the Lojban community suffers from. >> >> > In addition, I would absolutely love having a voice chat room available >> > (like TeamSpeak or Mumble) which wasn't solely in Lojban. I wanted to >> > participate in the Sunday chats, but I got the feeling that they'd >> > mostly just be in Lojban with experienced speakers. Having an open >> voice >> > chat room is a low-investment way to practice speaking Lojban for the >> > new dweebs like me. It's more personal than IRC and might be good for >> > building up the community. It's pretty low-investment either way. >> >> Oh yes, definitely. selckiku did that a bunch of times, and I remember >> tsani teaching menturi via Mumble, and I taught a few people there as >> well, but it was always spontaneous. >> >> We did try establishing a habit of being on Mumble everyday, but it kind >> of fizzled out. When nobody else joins for days or weeks it starts to >> look pointless. >> >> There's also the very real problem that almost all of the most >> experienced speakers now live in Europe, so time zone differences start >> to matter. >> >> Any ideas how to improve the situation? >> >> ~~~mi'e la selpa'i >> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+un...@googlegroups.com . > To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com > . > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. ------=_Part_4703_1086313851.1473603109571 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Em domingo, 11 de setembro de 2016 11:29:12 UTC+3,= Timothy Lawrence escreveu:

I would be happy for a new low-key, non-recorded Lojban-English channel = that occurs at a different time (in Australia, I am always asleep when the = current Mumble chats run, from memory). I would certainly make effort to us= e it :)


Start a new thr= ead with suggestion for a different time.


From: loj...@googlegroups.com <loj...@googlegroups.= com> on behalf of suzanys <susann...@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, 4 September 2016 2:10 AM
To: lojban
Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: taking action
=C2=A0
Could we just add a channel to the existing Mumble server = for new speakers that is a mix of English and Lojban? I'd love to pract= ice speaking but it's a bit intimidating to go to all Lojban-or-nothing= at my level.

On Friday, September 2, 2016 at 8:03:27 AM UTC-4, selpa'i wrote:
On 02.09.2016 01:19, suzanys wrote:
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 I think a more formalised/explicit/organised mentoring p= rocess might
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 help bring the community closer together. It might help = retain more
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 learners and form more invested friendships.
>
>
> That's a great idea! As a new learner, it'd be great to have s= omeone to
> help introduce and integrate me into the community. Maybe another
> approach would be to pair new learners together. I'm not sure whic= h
> would work better!

We could try both.

I suppose the latter approach would include maintaining a list of people currently learning (preferably along with their geographic location) so we don't have to go asking around for a matching study partner whenever=
a new person "finds us".

Mentoring is a great concept - in theory. Sadly I often spend a lot of
effort introducing a newcomer to the language (teaching grammar, giving learning advice, supplying useful links) only to find them never return. It seems to me that people stick around if they want to, and it doesn't=
matter much (generally, though there are of course counter-examples) how much you try to help them. If they care about the language they will
stay and keep studying, and if they never cared that much, no amount of mentoring, motivating, supporting, will make them stay. I do not have
enough fingers on my hands and feet combined to count the people who
seemed like they were serious about the language and then dropped off
the face of the earth despite having made good progress and having
received plenty of help and encouragement.

I don't believe this is a phenomenon that is specific to the Lojban community. It is, however, one that the Lojban community suffers from.

> In addition, I would absolutely love having a voice chat room availabl= e
> (like TeamSpeak or Mumble) which wasn't solely in Lojban. I wanted= to
> participate in the Sunday chats, but I got the feeling that they'd=
> mostly just be in Lojban with experienced speakers. Having an open voi= ce
> chat room is a low-investment way to practice speaking Lojban for the =
> new dweebs like me. It's more personal than IRC and might be good = for
> building up the community. It's pretty low-investment either way. =

Oh yes, definitely. selckiku did that a bunch of times, and I remember
tsani teaching menturi via Mumble, and I taught a few people there as
well, but it was always spontaneous.

We did try establishing a habit of being on Mumble everyday, but it kind of fizzled out. When nobody else joins for days or weeks it starts to
look pointless.

There's also the very real problem that almost all of the most
experienced speakers now live in Europe, so time zone differences start to matter.

Any ideas how to improve the situation?

~~~mi'e la selpa'i

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojba= n+un...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.goo= gle.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/= d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsub= scribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http= s://groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit http= s://groups.google.com/d/optout.
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