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[104.47.36.66]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id d184si314658itg.0.2016.09.13.16.19.52 for (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 13 Sep 2016 16:19:52 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of timothy.lawrence@connect.qut.edu.au designates 104.47.36.66 as permitted sender) client-ip=104.47.36.66; Received: from CO2PR01MB2087.prod.exchangelabs.com (10.166.91.18) by CO2PR01MB2088.prod.exchangelabs.com (10.166.91.19) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_0, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA_P384) id 15.1.619.10; Tue, 13 Sep 2016 23:19:51 +0000 Received: from CO2PR01MB2087.prod.exchangelabs.com ([10.166.91.18]) by CO2PR01MB2087.prod.exchangelabs.com ([10.166.91.18]) with mapi id 15.01.0619.010; Tue, 13 Sep 2016 23:19:51 +0000 From: Timothy Lawrence To: "lojban@googlegroups.com" Subject: Re: [lojban] BPFK has approved cmavo swaps Thread-Topic: [lojban] BPFK has approved cmavo swaps Thread-Index: AQHSDP/OhBCWrNBbmESxCeSTOZw7uaB3VRwAgABusYCAAEbZ5A== Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2016 23:19:51 +0000 Message-ID: References: <07b91787-b69f-ea70-4015-8ae40e17297e@gmx.de>,<141d21c1-9421-2e8f-2ad6-2056e507f49c@gmx.de>, In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-AU, en-US Content-Language: en-AU X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [25.163.96.4] x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: fe3c1d58-f7c4-4935-a492-08d3dc2c766f x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1;CO2PR01MB2088;6:EeLEtwxCdMvHWlONN4YYwG00uFglLcK6ROe1Ey7c1xFa8gRoCYAhbrgAREdd5E4y8pU3Tuz/K3tzQM2gd6mTL2yD4VuXMD/HNFJl1Puz/vJh6rNE+7CChfxJEriSJ8CrbwlZxVjRdF1Buf39JOPb5ewCmgmeg1eVI2opguIcD5+he3EbW7fyMxENx/F1oQCF8krTAyJZLUdLP5/v1Y++Gwnws/DaG0JKF1fXjnFVZSnMi+ysVCTGz+d41Fmdqaj7tEZ2h6ifa0aax19tsy3GNiLkPRGDZ1Vy8FCrAZe5Dgc=;5:pITIZZp9yJQKobwUwFzDVndZHvNd9xL1r36AhrOl6b/wU0qfTLMgsjTtrA+vrA2o0PTixNa0ELuw1lS9LbYgO1CZZ8fsiuVLCTDVBj242uK/za4qYKCBxnCjmrzRopCItjq19WIE47V9TjfjObGQiQ==;24:Hgp/fqStNdLd5FyZrAb8dytMzuHucbL3MvaCpK9azBrhLRgZmDsFPCiUgH5idjgZkxWiBHHKOV47zN2Q/Bbh92GRRMpWWDSIxa+4kKirt6k=;7:heIAdBCodmkO1rvpEHEWNTGR0imA347jW+dirkvWP9rnFTCmYoFJpqdUp8RNTNlvS7UzjH53ls+82tTzGGD05jDPCehXrFpm4RGH43CzznNDMeSS+tzbQzB4KW9a5uQHB1cXzDdHTvGYJwLz3WVh/EeyFQ+IWwSsfmguecBQzALeNdSTJGDQsB2i+6bt7mIhDATEltC/N7G+s8WIPNUrJqz4dWuObyHQpgqeGv4mPXFa6WLCGs8b36XtuzbtnxS2 x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:;BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:CO2PR01MB2088; 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received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: connect.qut.edu.au does not designate permitted sender hosts) spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_CO2PR01MB20876258AA84BE1962E8DEC5EBFE0CO2PR01MB2087prod_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: connect.qut.edu.au X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 13 Sep 2016 23:19:51.0189 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: dc0b52a3-68c5-44f7-881d-9383d8850b96 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: CO2PR01MB2088 X-Original-Sender: timothy.lawrence@connect.qut.edu.au X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of timothy.lawrence@connect.qut.edu.au designates 104.47.36.66 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=timothy.lawrence@connect.qut.edu.au; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=qut.edu.au Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Spam-Checked-In-Group: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_bar: - --_000_CO2PR01MB20876258AA84BE1962E8DEC5EBFE0CO2PR01MB2087prod_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > I was just trying to see if anyone was still paying attention to the ma= iling list I was watching to see how it unfolded before publicly judging. > > Why do none of those people ever participate in anything constructive? I do. Anyone else want to help formalise the website maintenance project and set = up project management software for all Lojbanists to use freely? I've been = submitting what I think to be constructive ideas. I just need access to a server to install these things, if approved. I've e= ven offered to pay for server space, if necessary and reasonable. > > Why has everyone been ignoring la uakci's many attempts at getting the= community to participate in things like his interactive story or the weekl= y poems? Not everyone. I participated and this entire site is because of uakci's eff= orts https://kibykarni.wordpress.com/ but I am a "mailing list exclusive". = It may look small but it took me hours and I learnt much. > > How hard is it to respond with "Nice work, I'm looking forward to the n= ext issue"? I honestly assumed that those sort of responses aren't appreciated on maili= ng lists due to email volume concerns. This presumed etiquette may be why t= he community seems a bit cold on this sort of medium, when it isn't actuall= y quite so. I did thank uakci privately. > Because we don't care about a nebulous idea of "community"; we're not Esp= erantists and we're not seeking intercultural exchange. Not all of us. I care very much about the community and I want to help grow= it. It's a language, after all, which makes little sense to learn without some = others to speak with. Beyond that, I think humanity really needs a language that democratises log= ic and clear thinking. ________________________________ From: lojban@googlegroups.com on behalf of Thomas= Porter Sent: Wednesday, 14 September 2016 4:44 AM To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] BPFK has approved cmavo swaps >Many people only ever speak up when they have something to complain about= (usually whenever something appears to be changing). A young couple adopt a German baby. Throughout his childhood the little boy= is perfectly normal, except for the fact he never speaks a single word. Be= ing the caring parents they are, they have him tested by every expert in ev= ery possible way to find out what is wrong with him but nothing ever comes = up. One day, however, shortly after the boy=E2=80=99s 5th birthday, after = lunch he suddenly asserts: =E2=80=9CThis strudel is tepid.=E2=80=9D His parents are completely puzzled yet amazed: =E2=80=9CHeinrich! What=E2= =80=99s been wrong? How come you talk all of a sudden? Why haven=E2=80=99t = you spoken before?=E2=80=9D The boy turns to his parents and replies imperturbably : =E2=80=9CUntil now= , everything has been satisfactory.=E2=80=9D >Why do none of those people ever participate in anything constructive? Why= has everyone been ignoring la uakci's many attempts at getting the commun= ity >to participate in things like his interactive story or the weekly poems? Because we don't care about a nebulous idea of "community"; we're not Esper= antists and we're not seeking intercultural exchange. We only want a langua= ge that functions as spoken logic. Had Loglan a greater following and more = materials, it would be chosen instead. >How hard is it to respond with "Nice work, I'm looking forward to the nex= t issue"? You managed to frustrate them so much that they have now l>eft the mailing list. la uakci is one of the most promising new jbopre in= the world, and it is a terrible choice to ignore their efforts and >risk losing them because they receive nothing in return. When you choose an obscure hobby like invented language learning, you can't= do it for accolades or attention. You have to do it because there is somet= hing it offers that natural languages do not. It is a deeply personal and i= solating hobby. >Lojban belongs in the hands of those who act, and sadly, you are not one o= f them. Why aren't you? And why spoil it for those who actually care? Lojban belongs only to itself. We are its inheritors, but never its master. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --_000_CO2PR01MB20876258AA84BE1962E8DEC5EBFE0CO2PR01MB2087prod_ Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

> > I was just trying to see if anyone was still paying attention to t= he mailing list

I was watching to see how it unfolded before publicly judging.

> > Why do none of those peop= le ever participate in anything constructive?

I do.

Anyone else want to help formalise the website mai= ntenance project and set up project management software for all Lojbanists = to use freely? I've been submitting what I think to be constructive ideas.

I just need access to a server to install these things,= if approved. I've even offered to pay for server space, if necessary and r= easonable.

> > Why has  everyone been ignoring = la uakci's many attempts at getting the community to participate in things like his interactive = story or the weekly poems?

Not everyone. I participated and this entire site is be= cause of uakci's efforts https://kibykarni.wordpress.c= om/ but I am a "mailing list exclusive". It may look small but it took m= e hours and I learnt much.

> > How hard is it = to respond with "Nice work, I'm looking forward to the next issue"? 

I honestly assumed that those sort of responses aren't = appreciated on mailing lists due to email volume concerns. This presumed&nb= sp;etiquette may be why the community seems a bit cold on this sort of medium, when it isn't actually quite so. <= span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size= : 13.3333px;">I did thank uakci privately.

> Because we don't care about a nebulous idea of "community= "; we're not Esperantists and we're not seeking intercultural exchange= .

Not all of us. I care very much about the community and I want to help grow= it.
It's a language, after all, which makes little sense to learn wit= hout some others to speak with.
Beyond that, I think humanity really needs a language that democratise= s logic and clear thinking.


From: lojban@googlegroups.c= om <lojban@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Thomas Porter <osiris_ha= des_deathland@hotmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, 14 September 2016 4:44 AM
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [lojban] BPFK has approved cmavo swaps
 

>Many people only ever speak up when t= hey have something to complain  = about (usually whenever something appears to be changing). 


A young couple adopt a German baby. Throughout his childhood the little boy= is perfectly normal, except for the fact he never speaks a single word. Be= ing the caring parents they are, they have him tested by every expert in ev= ery possible way to find out what is wrong with him but nothing ever comes up. One day, however, shortly aft= er the boy=E2=80=99s 5th birthday,  after lunch he suddenly asserts: = =E2=80=9CThis strudel is tepid.=E2=80=9D

His parents are completely puzzled yet amazed: =E2=80=9CHeinrich! What=E2= =80=99s been wrong? How come you talk all of a sudden? Why haven=E2=80=99t = you spoken before?=E2=80=9D

The boy turns to his parents and replies imperturbably : =E2=80=9CUnti= l now, everything has been satisfactory.=E2=80=9D



>Why do none of those people ever participate i= n anything constructive? Why has  everyone been ignoring la uakci's ma= ny attempts at getting the community
>to participate in things like his interactive story or the weekly poems= ?

Because we don't care about a nebulous idea of &qu= ot;community"; we're not Esperantists and we're not seeking intercultu= ral exchange. We only want a language that functions as spoken logic. Had L= oglan a greater following and more materials, it would be chosen instead.

>How hard is it to respond with "Nice work= , I'm looking forward to the  next issue"? You managed to frustra= te them so much that they have now
l>eft the mailing list. la uakci is one of the most promising new jbopre= in the world, and it is a terrible choice to ignore their efforts and
>risk losing them because they receive nothing in return.

When you choose an obscure hobby like invented language learning, you can't= do it for accolades or attention. You have to do it because there is somet= hing it offers that natural languages do not. It is a deeply personal and i= solating hobby.


>Lojban belongs in the hands of those who act, and sadly, you are not on= e of them. Why aren't you? And why spoil it for those who actually care?
Lojban belongs only to itself. We are its inheritors, but never its master.=

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsub= scribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http= s://groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit http= s://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsub= scribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http= s://groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit http= s://groups.google.com/d/optout.
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