Received: from mail-lf0-f58.google.com ([209.85.215.58]:33495) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.86) (envelope-from ) id 1bk3Ak-0007J3-3Y for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Tue, 13 Sep 2016 22:55:54 -0700 Received: by mail-lf0-f58.google.com with SMTP id g62sf1841935lfe.0 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2016 22:55:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=sender:from:subject:to:user-agent:date:message-id:references :content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=JS8vEU8g7nyOIfQoTpnsl7uZ9JOL4WLe93ynwR2SocM=; b=Sd3gAJSB0aUMUuhauIfSNeGUhd2UNUxD21o9sB0UjgqRAbf+SF2TlCuJxUeiGfokFn RQv5QuS9vvPZnFNoZvhB1QViCVxQKh4S/owvK8gVhO39kOHToxoeGgKUcbXbLAcwGBHi EiI6PiNQ+FNKeZR/C+NGPw/ppDlpzstmUGajL0WUuLtpJhXaYQegm+Df2GiKTnrmtDoe V9V2/uWfBVYsxkEE9le6A9k3xV0oChUAQ+Xmki/tdO11nzHqDLkBOLAs4MP9cOYy1w6e enJUGhe9qCvhnay99UY74sYC2wni+bW0mGFbiPcn2pZYb0ZcdZM4RRqP5BsLtsnjsGu+ JZpg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=sender:x-gm-message-state:from:subject:to:user-agent:date :message-id:references:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post :list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=JS8vEU8g7nyOIfQoTpnsl7uZ9JOL4WLe93ynwR2SocM=; b=dInAp2ph1z0lsFJUEDL4jx/02cjHIQR5LLy2gKsaDcgx4R9bZUkKWMRcHG0xc65KC/ st62PRTWp+m7EWFFdHZyyGP13XTmzW75oymW2Xe9J480BZG3lpKE+v9PlkJICKnzZeqh wFXpsZkiGDQ/xKkq8jxVVzeyChPd2pvWM5+bkfBUxkO2gHguEEEXllTUpSPL2xn40R/m 103mObP/HY2iHNbf/Iz0+0LLoQjzw42lOPxuxK853DyCuXQ8R0OOhLrTBXcgD9ZnsUYS 4MYqMX64s+Ss2RR8mABSiUolrRizCDT57gdxKzuZ4IIW0J3Q+7xtqZs+igHq0zyUckvR Lm4A== Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Gm-Message-State: AE9vXwP85nfMSoStvRrXwn/IrtM0/TUWxNarg56IyOpDStNV0LFjnhS2pNAdCjEQhvSe9w== X-Received: by 10.28.208.138 with SMTP id h132mr4422wmg.16.1473832542916; Tue, 13 Sep 2016 22:55:42 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.28.48.6 with SMTP id w6ls63129wmw.17.canary; Tue, 13 Sep 2016 22:55:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.28.206.68 with SMTP id e65mr789165wmg.3.1473832542420; Tue, 13 Sep 2016 22:55:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from s202.webhostingserver.nl (s202.webhostingserver.nl. [2a03:3c00:a002:202::1]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id b1si846522wmg.0.2016.09.13.22.55.42 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 13 Sep 2016 22:55:42 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of auke@klazema.net designates 2a03:3c00:a002:202::1 as permitted sender) client-ip=2a03:3c00:a002:202::1; Received: from d9786adf.cm-3-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl ([217.120.106.223] helo=localhost) by s202.webhostingserver.nl with esmtpa (Exim 4.87) (envelope-from ) id 1bk3Ab-000tKl-8q for lojban@googlegroups.com; Wed, 14 Sep 2016 07:55:41 +0200 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 From: "Auke L. Klazema" Subject: Re: [lojban] BPFK has approved cmavo swaps To: lojban@googlegroups.com User-Agent: GaiaMail/0.2 Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2016 05:55:37 GMT Message-Id: <1473832538800.f5036368f38678@mozgaia> References: <07b91787-b69f-ea70-4015-8ae40e17297e@gmx.de>,<141d21c1-9421-2e8f-2ad6-2056e507f49c@gmx.de>, Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Authenticated-Id: auke@klazema.net X-Original-Sender: auke@klazema.net X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of auke@klazema.net designates 2a03:3c00:a002:202::1 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=auke@klazema.net Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Spam-Checked-In-Group: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: /
Thanks for the = uplifting response.

lojban@googlegroups.com schreef:

> > I was just trying to see if anyone was still paying attention to t= he mailing list

I was watching to see how it unfolded before publicly judging.

> > Why do none of those peop= le ever participate in anything constructive?

I do.

Anyone else want to help formalise the website mai= ntenance project and set up project management software for all Lojbanists = to use freely? I've been submitting what I think to be constructive ideas.

I just need access to a server to install these things,= if approved. I've even offered to pay for server space, if necessary a= nd reasonable.

> > Why has  everyone been ignoring = la uakci's many attempts at getting the community to participate in things like his interactive = story or the weekly poems?

Not everyone. I participated and this entire site is be= cause of uakci's efforts htt= ps://kibykarni.wordpress.com/ but I am a "mailing list exclusive". It may look small but it took m= e hours and I learnt much.

> > How hard is it = to respond with "Nice work, I'm looking forward to the next issue"? 

I honestly assumed that those sort of responses aren= 9;t appreciated on mailing lists due to email volume concerns. This presume= d etiquette may be why the community seems a bit cold on this sort of medium, when it isn't actually quite so.&nb= sp;I did thank uakci privately.

> Because we don't care about a nebulous idea of "commu= nity"; we're not Esperantists and we're not seeking intercultu= ral exchange.

Not all of us. I care very much about the community and I want to help grow= it.
It's a language, after all, which makes little sense to learn = ;without some others to speak with.
Beyond that, I think humanity really needs a language that democratise= s logic and clear thinking.


From: lojban@googlegroups.c= om <lojban@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Thomas Porter <osiris_ha= des_deathland@hotmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, 14 September 2016 4:44 AM
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [lojban] BPFK has approved cmavo swaps
 

>Many people only ever speak up when t= hey have something to complain  = about (usually whenever something appears to be changing). 


A young couple adopt a German baby. Throughout his childhood the little boy= is perfectly normal, except for the fact he never speaks a single word. Be= ing the caring parents they are, they have him tested by every expert in ev= ery possible way to find out what is wrong with him but nothing ever comes up. One day, however, shortly aft= er the boy=E2=80=99s 5th birthday,  after lunch he suddenly asserts: = =E2=80=9CThis strudel is tepid.=E2=80=9D

His parents are completely puzzled yet amazed: =E2=80=9CHeinrich! What=E2= =80=99s been wrong? How come you talk all of a sudden? Why haven=E2=80=99t = you spoken before?=E2=80=9D

The boy turns to his parents and replies imperturbably : =E2=80=9CUnti= l now, everything has been satisfactory.=E2=80=9D



>Why do none of those people ever participate i= n anything constructive? Why has  everyone been ignoring la uakci'= s many attempts at getting the community
>to participate in things like his interactive story or the weekly poems= ?

Because we don't care about a nebulous idea of= "community"; we're not Esperantists and we're not seekin= g intercultural exchange. We only want a language that functions as spoken = logic. Had Loglan a greater following and more materials, it would be chosen instead.

>How hard is it to respond with "Nice work= , I'm looking forward to the  next issue"? You managed to fru= strate them so much that they have now
l>eft the mailing list. la uakci is one of the most promising new jbopre= in the world, and it is a terrible choice to ignore their efforts and
>risk losing them because they receive nothing in return.

When you choose an obscure hobby like invented language learning, you can&#= 39;t do it for accolades or attention. You have to do it because there is s= omething it offers that natural languages do not. It is a deeply personal a= nd isolating hobby.


>Lojban belongs in the hands of those who act, and sadly, you are not on= e of them. Why aren't you? And why spoil it for those who actually care= ?

Lojban belongs only to itself. We are its inheritors, but never its master.=

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