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[2607:f8b0:4003:c06::22c]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id l65si246531vkd.3.2016.09.15.06.13.11 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 15 Sep 2016 06:13:11 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4003:c06::22c as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:4003:c06::22c; Received: by mail-oi0-x22c.google.com with SMTP id q188so67407166oia.3 for ; Thu, 15 Sep 2016 06:13:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.157.47.36 with SMTP id h33mr7237326otb.140.1473945191229; Thu, 15 Sep 2016 06:13:11 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.213.226 with HTTP; Thu, 15 Sep 2016 06:12:30 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <07b91787-b69f-ea70-4015-8ae40e17297e@gmx.de> <141d21c1-9421-2e8f-2ad6-2056e507f49c@gmx.de> From: Michael Turniansky Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2016 09:12:30 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] BPFK has approved cmavo swaps To: lojban@googlegroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=94eb2c0442508aaed2053c8b9b19 X-Original-Sender: Mturniansky@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4003:c06::22c as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=mturniansky@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Spam-Checked-In-Group: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -1.8 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.8 X-Spam_score_int: -17 X-Spam_bar: - --94eb2c0442508aaed2053c8b9b19 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Joshua, You'd be surprised. There's a lot of people who, when presented with the statement, "I've written X. Could someone please look at it and give me feedback/suggestions?" (either here or on the beginner list) will do so. I've certainly had a lot of feedback on stuff I've done, and when people have questioned why I made certain choices, I've explained myself, or acquiesced to their suggestions, or worked with them to find a compromise. --gejyspa, still reading mail from Jan 20 or so On Wed, Sep 14, 2016 at 11:33 PM, Joshua Proehl wrote: > > most people seem to simply ignore everything that happens. >> >> Many people only ever speak up when they have something to complain about >> (usually whenever something appears to be changing). Why do none of those >> people ever participate in anything constructive? Why has everyone been >> ignoring la uakci's many attempts at getting the community to participate >> in things like his interactive story or the weekly poems? > > > > I read the mailing lists, and I enjoy the practice of reading content in > Lojban. However I am not confident in my ability to produce *correct* > lojban, and so feel a bit of an imposter. Thus: I lurk. > > It's a problem I've had both in learning Lojban and German. Learning to > produce (write/speak) the language is a completely different skillset than > learning to understand it, and requires a lot of feedback and corrections. > Neither of the mailing lists are the place for that sort of content, nor a > particularly good medium. Were I to contribute content in lojban for > poems/newsletters it would place a significant editing burden on somebody, > as I'm simply not up to that level of fluency yet on the creation side. > > (Solving this problem seems non-trivial. I've considered doing some > software development to create a better workflow for, say, posting a blog > in the language you're learning and easily allowing others to > comment/correct specific parts, but in order to be valuable you need the > community of fluent speakers to dedicate time to making > corrections/comments reliably, and I'm not sure if Lojban has the critical > mass to make it worth developing.) > > I appreciate the content! It's wonderful! Were there a "upvote" button on > email I would utilize it, but I agree with Timothy Lawrence that it's an > email/mailing-list etiquette issue. More content to learn from is *always* > appreciated though, for the record! :-) > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --94eb2c0442508aaed2053c8b9b19 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Joshua,

=C2=A0 =C2=A0You'd be= surprised.=C2=A0 There's a lot of people who, when presented with the = statement, "I've written X.=C2=A0 Could someone please look at it = and give me feedback/suggestions?" (either here or on the beginner lis= t) will do so.=C2=A0 I've certainly had a lot of feedback on stuff I= 9;ve done, and when people have questioned why I made certain choices, I= 9;ve explained myself, or acquiesced to their suggestions, or worked with t= hem to find a compromise.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0--g= ejyspa, still reading mail from Jan 20 or so


On Wed, Sep 14, 2016 = at 11:33 PM, Joshua Proehl <joshua.proehl@gmail.com> w= rote:

=C2=A0most people seem to simply ignore everything that happe= ns.

Many people only ever speak up when they have something to complain about (= usually whenever something appears to be changing). Why do none of those pe= ople ever participate in anything constructive? Why has everyone been ignor= ing la uakci's many attempts at getting the community to participate in= things like his interactive story or the weekly poems?
<= br>
I read the mailing lists, and I enjoy the practice= of reading content in Lojban. However I am not confident in my ability to = produce *correct* lojban, and so feel a bit of an imposter. Thus: I lurk. <= br>
It's a problem I've had both in learning Lojban a= nd German. Learning to produce (write/speak) the language is a completely d= ifferent skillset than learning to understand it, and requires a lot of fee= dback and corrections. Neither of the mailing lists are the place for that = sort of content, nor a particularly good medium. Were I to contribute conte= nt in lojban for poems/newsletters it would place a significant editing bur= den on somebody, as I'm simply not up to that level of fluency yet on t= he creation side.

(Solving this problem seems non-trivial. I've= considered doing some software development to create a better workflow for= , say, posting a blog in the language you're learning and easily allowi= ng others to comment/correct specific parts, but in order to be valuable yo= u need the community of fluent speakers to dedicate time to making correcti= ons/comments reliably, and I'm not sure if Lojban has the critical mass= to make it worth developing.)

I appreciate the content! = It's wonderful! Were there a "upvote" button on email I would= utilize it, but I agree with Timothy Lawrence that it's an email/maili= ng-list etiquette issue. More content to learn from is *always* appreciated= though, for the record! :-)

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsub= scribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http= s://groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit http= s://groups.google.com/d/optout.
--94eb2c0442508aaed2053c8b9b19--