Received: from mail-oi0-f63.google.com ([209.85.218.63]:33191) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.86) (envelope-from ) id 1bklQf-0001ow-1S for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Thu, 15 Sep 2016 22:11:19 -0700 Received: by mail-oi0-f63.google.com with SMTP id w11sf23092876oia.0 for ; Thu, 15 Sep 2016 22:11:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=sender:date:from:to:cc:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject :mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=5Th0rOSmm6sayNs4KwJw2k5xEJL748nhwfZG+PqL5nQ=; b=xMeq9nhaAN8uZRws4O78bJURWnLUXsFGqSFbkRv2o9HkXsFdNxlanHeHW3hiVINCdf CtzzjKIb91vJKAJrfQiy79QB8R1G5nO4/5qnzWn8ZGAoYRPoStqIeuXJqFva0gO1JEER QvxgbU0Jg+Yc1S6lvJ67by0U1Nh+0D81YYcAbty+H7bqSTYMq0uFlzt6BF3GbqMspNlm 1HZ0ftHJ6qmykW2ilAbTgh2+x6W+AN77EdusWnKe2LcM9sWK693QQuPoQnT2//QqzRL2 b/uuwOz9kO7BlxkMspCLmrhCNurdCDQFL7p2jEt62xhaAVAtkjn+rFaOkVL9QmKIvsAw Koog== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:cc:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject :mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=5Th0rOSmm6sayNs4KwJw2k5xEJL748nhwfZG+PqL5nQ=; b=Wu9PJqgg8EivHSI7RqopsVgEQtddD7Ja6FlJSD60JyBhwg19zJFbtJvtHW2b2B0XKa rkYstP3cWiP/uhue1PH/de1cuZ/dmepaaTdnWgqkHDJGlHjjKpEB6ctBC3kk5bLJrDMu Lx770IzOpu6YScjjh+MnzpK/zqm837pf+ZoYqWlKIL4ETtgKBCDq7EmssTZafiuygod1 AiPNZL87CMqVigAokO+0Bn1MmUF7cc79CkqA4nCZTxSLbHKyGWHK2hMXwGOQa2Sh2Zmp cdDGATBDWjSZ7lD933UCBgr9ShBRhi1pZD++hapLtBYUG3pZSmTL09OVVRlBuwHRto2i Y3wQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=sender:x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:cc:message-id:in-reply-to :references:subject:mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post :list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=5Th0rOSmm6sayNs4KwJw2k5xEJL748nhwfZG+PqL5nQ=; b=L2firiKJa5ZaokGaXriP7qQaEBpi+nMSJkVx+OrIwO3Z7O0TO8rcB0YuNMRDU8JrZG yy5W5b0+r0O/ra70wwVQY+OwT0gltJAjelDc2XhL8o3B6D+fFRjrY0dlcCyUute74vZ0 uYA4fa5h4s0hk351AoIQLYfwFEJtoVKf0bqPUpueoC4C/lOoPJIINyGB8+R4CRkDGoCG xCMY9g71tB/7e1HplMU2TCumcBgGi3UNTMOe39C9fQ7wx6l+7EJj34v3lQXbq8Zp0LpG KiWwBp1nc3xCSQU5BbqN+2KGW6rV1rb+Sga8pTOiwydBx4SlqN+dcxC8Lpc5GeZqSDTm Hamg== Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Gm-Message-State: AE9vXwM8m3uqQ46qoh8xrSSCQ1eqHygzrQrfFX5GPtvhuWk67rdFQEkdi9wVmr0jIdS8ww== X-Received: by 10.157.8.10 with SMTP id 10mr863553oty.16.1474002666586; Thu, 15 Sep 2016 22:11:06 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.157.56.29 with SMTP id i29ls5209769otc.12.gmail; Thu, 15 Sep 2016 22:11:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.157.43.242 with SMTP id u105mr864868ota.17.1474002666301; Thu, 15 Sep 2016 22:11:06 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2016 22:11:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Wei Tang To: lojban Cc: timothy.lawrence@connect.qut.edu.au Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <07b91787-b69f-ea70-4015-8ae40e17297e@gmx.de> <141d21c1-9421-2e8f-2ad6-2056e507f49c@gmx.de>, Subject: Re: [lojban] BPFK has approved cmavo swaps MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_1366_1157811097.1474002665523" X-Original-Sender: sorpaas@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Spam-Checked-In-Group: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -1.8 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.8 X-Spam_score_int: -17 X-Spam_bar: - ------=_Part_1366_1157811097.1474002665523 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_1367_1745840744.1474002665523" ------=_Part_1367_1745840744.1474002665523 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi all, Just in case we want to use Phabricator for project management: I have a Phabricator instance that is used to host some of my personal projects, which has been running for more than a year. It is not heavily used, so I can offer it for Lojban users for any testing purpose. Here's the url: https://source.that.world Until next time, have fun! -- Wei P.S. Don't know whether that would be a good fit, because Phabricator is mainly for code review, and stuff like that. On Friday, September 16, 2016 at 12:18:20 PM UTC+8, Timothy Lawrence wrote: > > *> **I am not confident in my ability to produce *correct* lojban, and so > feel a bit of an imposter. Thus: I lurk. * > > I think a lot of learners feel like they would be imposing, but it is a > massive catch-22: if they don't "impose" they won't get good enough that > they'll no longer be "imposing". The same has happened to me, so I've tried > to get more active :) > > I would like the website to more explicitly encourage would-be lurkers to > get active and participate, not fearing making mistakes. This is what I > have meant with my ideas about a formalised mentoring process. It doesn't > have to be mentoring per se, but just an explicit "talk to people! > connect!" in the website somewhere. There really are so many people who > very kindly love helping others learn Lojban. > > Humans are social animals, so we can't sustain motivation to learn a > language alone indefinitely. My experience has been that others love > beginners joining the community and trying (regardless of any mistakes). > > > *> **I'm simply not up to that level of fluency yet on the creation > side. * > > In martial arts, sometimes beginners use a sparring dummy before > practising with real persons. Lojban, being a language suitable for > human-computer interaction, could have a dumb chatbot for "sparring" > practice before talking with real persons. I did a *really* basic mockup > here to show the concept https://jsfiddle.net/gxextk82/10/ Once a user > has exhausted its repertoire of phrases, the bot could recommended the user > should connect with the community now that they feel a bit more confident. > > > Anyone, let me know if you want to collaborate on such a project. > > > > *> **I've considered doing some software development to create a better > workflow for, say, posting a blog in the language you're learning and > easily allowing others to comment/correct specific parts* > > > Such software exists already (e.g. Phabricator, or GitHub, or any > normal code review software). > > > la suzanys and I are hoping to push for a Phabricator platform that will > help facilitate this and other Lojbanic projects :) We might be able to all > collaborate on a publication together. > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* loj...@googlegroups.com > on behalf of Joshua Proehl > > *Sent:* Thursday, 15 September 2016 1:33 PM > *To:* loj...@googlegroups.com > *Subject:* Re: [lojban] BPFK has approved cmavo swaps > > > most people seem to simply ignore everything that happens. >> >> Many people only ever speak up when they have something to complain about >> (usually whenever something appears to be changing). Why do none of those >> people ever participate in anything constructive? Why has everyone been >> ignoring la uakci's many attempts at getting the community to participate >> in things like his interactive story or the weekly poems? > > > > I read the mailing lists, and I enjoy the practice of reading content in > Lojban. However I am not confident in my ability to produce *correct* > lojban, and so feel a bit of an imposter. Thus: I lurk. > > It's a problem I've had both in learning Lojban and German. Learning to > produce (write/speak) the language is a completely different skillset than > learning to understand it, and requires a lot of feedback and corrections. > Neither of the mailing lists are the place for that sort of content, nor a > particularly good medium. Were I to contribute content in lojban for > poems/newsletters it would place a significant editing burden on somebody, > as I'm simply not up to that level of fluency yet on the creation side. > > (Solving this problem seems non-trivial. I've considered doing some > software development to create a better workflow for, say, posting a blog > in the language you're learning and easily allowing others to > comment/correct specific parts, but in order to be valuable you need the > community of fluent speakers to dedicate time to making > corrections/comments reliably, and I'm not sure if Lojban has the critical > mass to make it worth developing.) > > I appreciate the content! It's wonderful! Were there a "upvote" button on > email I would utilize it, but I agree with Timothy Lawrence that it's an > email/mailing-list etiquette issue. More content to learn from is *always* > appreciated though, for the record! :-) > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+un...@googlegroups.com . > To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com > . > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. ------=_Part_1367_1745840744.1474002665523 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi all,

Just in case we want to use Pha= bricator for project management: I have a Phabricator instance that is used= to host some of my personal projects, which has been running for more than= a year. It is not heavily used, so I can offer it for Lojban users for any= testing purpose. Here's the url: https://source.that.world
<= br>
Until next time, have fun!
-- Wei

P.S. Don't know whether that would be a good fit, because Phabr= icator is mainly for code review, and stuff like that.

On Fri= day, September 16, 2016 at 12:18:20 PM UTC+8, Timothy Lawrence wrote:

>=C2=A0I am not confident in my ability to produce *correct* lojban, and so feel a bit of an imposter. Thus: I lurk.=C2=A0

learn a language alone indefinitely. My experience has been that others love beg= inners joining the community and trying (regardless of any=C2=A0mistakes).<= /span>


>=C2=A0I'm simply not up to that level of fluency yet on the creation side.=C2=A0

In martial arts, sometimes beginners use a sparring dummy before practis= ing with=C2=A0real persons. Lojban, being a language suitable for human-com= puter interaction, could have=C2=A0a dumb=C2= =A0chatbot=C2=A0for "sparring" practice before talking with real persons. I did a=C2= =A0really basic mockup here to show the concept=C2=A0https://jsfiddle.net/gxextk82/10/=C2=A0Once a user has=C2= =A0exhausted its repertoire of phrases, the bot=C2=A0could recommended the user should= =C2=A0connect with the community now that they=C2=A0feel a bit more confide= nt.


Anyone,=C2=A0let me know if you want to c= ollaborate on such a project.



>=C2=A0I've considered doing some software develo= pment to create a better workflow for, say, posting a blog in the language = you're learning and easily allowing others to comment/correct specific = parts


Such software exists already (e.g. Phabricator, or=C2=A0GitHub, or=C2=A0= any normal=C2=A0code review software).


la suzanys and I are hoping to push for=C2=A0a Phabricator=C2=A0platform that = will help facilitate this and other Lojbanic projects :) We might be able t= o all collaborate on a publication together.



From: loj...@googlegroups.com <loj...@googlegroups.= com> on behalf of Joshua Proehl <joshua...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, 15 September 2016 1:33 PM
To: loj...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [lojban] BPFK has approved cmavo swaps
=C2=A0

=C2=A0most people seem to simply ignore everything that happens.

Many people only ever speak up when they have something to complain about (= usually whenever something appears to be changing). Why do none of those pe= ople ever participate in anything constructive? Why has everyone been ignor= ing la uakci's many attempts at getting the community to participate in things like his interactive story = or the weekly poems?


I read the mailing lists, and I enjoy the practice of reading content = in Lojban. However I am not confident in my ability to produce *correct* lo= jban, and so feel a bit of an imposter. Thus: I lurk.

It's a problem I've had both in learning Lojban and German. Le= arning to produce (write/speak) the language is a completely different skil= lset than learning to understand it, and requires a lot of feedback and cor= rections. Neither of the mailing lists are the place for that sort of content, nor a particularly good medium. Were I= to contribute content in lojban for poems/newsletters it would place a sig= nificant editing burden on somebody, as I'm simply not up to that level= of fluency yet on the creation side.

(Solving this problem seems non-trivial. I've considered doing some sof= tware development to create a better workflow for, say, posting a blog in t= he language you're learning and easily allowing others to comment/corre= ct specific parts, but in order to be valuable you need the community of fluent speakers to dedicate time to making corre= ctions/comments reliably, and I'm not sure if Lojban has the critical m= ass to make it worth developing.)

I appreciate the content! It's wonderful! Were there a "upvot= e" button on email I would utilize it, but I agree with Timothy Lawren= ce that it's an email/mailing-list etiquette issue. More content to lea= rn from is *always* appreciated though, for the record! :-)

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojba= n+un...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.goo= gle.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/= d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsub= scribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http= s://groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit http= s://groups.google.com/d/optout.
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