Received: from mail-vk0-f61.google.com ([209.85.213.61]:34014) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.86) (envelope-from ) id 1bknGR-0000YH-Jl for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Fri, 16 Sep 2016 00:08:52 -0700 Received: by mail-vk0-f61.google.com with SMTP id g9sf3001546vkg.1 for ; Fri, 16 Sep 2016 00:08:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=sender:date:from:to:cc:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject :mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=crjYVPHyLUgCK8s+l35GsBjyRSjYNanDD8IIhlku9b4=; b=PFzWebT3ApCOwayWTWXyAcLnwa9v5SERvwZU2T1UJwZ1zojw4gdMqqbc3xxpOvfgSY d3Lx9HfF6uUiheLE3Q5utXSbREfNXnQSuihEBh9jzV3sNKY8+PK0HAPIbpfRNa8u8aKk D+EbAb8JkKBxgd+ZxAjISILDBoeZQSABLfPXBhyBLFRsYJLzvGk9ZO0jNfma1ruq6Avn ndJqHvghr2Lvc3WaH2ytJIvrdtCYZn+L+nexhL2PhhbDSQFtlnoluchRM2tkTmrpfhKR e8JJXkuKc3U9m9LBmuoKDX6S8VAmErdgU/SIeYFWGrO1eSuulQ/Fa69mL1cL2/gBl+uX IseA== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:cc:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject :mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=crjYVPHyLUgCK8s+l35GsBjyRSjYNanDD8IIhlku9b4=; b=zT6dj1qp72flKxHOQVaCtMo3fKazyx1jloApXBCwM0WoUIzfLlZw6KLRLaoEz8IZpE 8ZyJjzwn2QL2049GCcaLyTFDhH5veTh5jYvTNY6KpCy95tvOLqMo95SnhbJOQqVDMVyB zXlU7TDNtUF0pGy8ooFz8x5bYwrF6RRofZ4IrdpeZrSo/9RlIVqumc+XQOJLBpLmYn4S yMQNRh54nvmtoWIMJphcwQkzpafMsbeIYC2O2F/Ctr2voYs3/Ss7e//JYA7H7ZfJOesB UcsfcPrWr+d0bi0Su18CEe3eKFQUUN+Itl6ix2ZdTGfPvPtp5KIzmbHoUT6S8xXw+M5c mUFA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=sender:x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:cc:message-id:in-reply-to :references:subject:mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post :list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=crjYVPHyLUgCK8s+l35GsBjyRSjYNanDD8IIhlku9b4=; b=ck8y8c3aC4ZHR0tryXWsqOMTnTsSDwaPsveKSt4ccKmEasNclQNn1x7syVKpLzU6H7 lcbS0ED07oyglXiHUwqpgu2TcSmvAPiK7gtd9jx1g8LeD6QtKqpqb9mIoLrvA6fcPEyv CBhBICh1LowAQRT59jB7qZ285p2GCjzvZW40k3BCeFPqElBlUTez6sVoBazfthdKdodX DIohT0yDUQlAjpW8jMNnaIKtD+KffJXv2hAl6smtb1zz7nComNKomvfFghJLDShu9raw 28DM4Z2MpthU/is6pl7f7S9El9b/CKtEPgZSwpIfO02U7E5uOXK/GGeNE0y6EESYxFA8 fu6Q== Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Gm-Message-State: AE9vXwMhasgkogvF/x4urNakLsL9KvBX82BUZhsogoLCA1IIPt2qXejcHMrRCpXONw1kog== X-Received: by 10.157.43.242 with SMTP id u105mr873847ota.17.1474009721618; Fri, 16 Sep 2016 00:08:41 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.157.15.42 with SMTP id 39ls5126610ott.0.gmail; Fri, 16 Sep 2016 00:08:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.157.59.194 with SMTP id k60mr389699otc.10.1474009721204; Fri, 16 Sep 2016 00:08:41 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2016 00:08:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Wei Tang To: lojban Cc: sorpaas@gmail.com, timothy.lawrence@connect.qut.edu.au Message-Id: <11f2276d-d60e-4615-b838-42bcdf05d93a@googlegroups.com> In-Reply-To: References: <07b91787-b69f-ea70-4015-8ae40e17297e@gmx.de> <141d21c1-9421-2e8f-2ad6-2056e507f49c@gmx.de>, , Subject: Re: [lojban] BPFK has approved cmavo swaps MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_1360_400106106.1474009720736" X-Original-Sender: sorpaas@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Spam-Checked-In-Group: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -1.8 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.8 X-Spam_score_int: -17 X-Spam_bar: - ------=_Part_1360_400106106.1474009720736 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_1361_1987725536.1474009720737" ------=_Part_1361_1987725536.1474009720737 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi Timothy, Great! Hope you find it useful. I once had a partial translation to Lojban for the Phabricator interface. It is for an older version, unfortunately. I'll look for the code, and see whether there's something useful I can do with it. Until next time, -- Wei On Friday, September 16, 2016 at 2:25:00 PM UTC+8, Timothy Lawrence wrote: > > coi > > > .i.ui mi mutce ckire do > > Thanks very much indeed! > > > I am going to create an account there, "timoteios", if that's okay. We > would like to see if we can use it for hosting a Lojban website proposal > and perhaps other projects. > > > Let us know at any time if we are overstaying our welcome! > > > ki'e cai do. > > i mi'e la timoteios. > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Wei Tang > > *Sent:* Friday, 16 September 2016 3:11 PM > *To:* lojban > *Cc:* Timothy Lawrence > *Subject:* Re: [lojban] BPFK has approved cmavo swaps > > Hi all, > > Just in case we want to use Phabricator for project management: I have a > Phabricator instance that is used to host some of my personal projects, > which has been running for more than a year. It is not heavily used, so I > can offer it for Lojban users for any testing purpose. Here's the url: > https://source.that.world > > Until next time, have fun! > -- Wei > > P.S. Don't know whether that would be a good fit, because Phabricator is > mainly for code review, and stuff like that. > > On Friday, September 16, 2016 at 12:18:20 PM UTC+8, Timothy Lawrence > wrote: >> >> *> **I am not confident in my ability to produce *correct* lojban, and >> so feel a bit of an imposter. Thus: I lurk. * >> >> I think a lot of learners feel like they would be imposing, but it is a >> massive catch-22: if they don't "impose" they won't get good enough that >> they'll no longer be "imposing". The same has happened to me, so I've tried >> to get more active :) >> >> I would like the website to more explicitly encourage would-be lurkers to >> get active and participate, not fearing making mistakes. This is what I >> have meant with my ideas about a formalised mentoring process. It doesn't >> have to be mentoring per se, but just an explicit "talk to people! >> connect!" in the website somewhere. There really are so many people who >> very kindly love helping others learn Lojban. >> >> Humans are social animals, so we can't sustain motivation to learn a >> language alone indefinitely. My experience has been that others love >> beginners joining the community and trying (regardless of any mistakes). >> >> >> *> **I'm simply not up to that level of fluency yet on the creation >> side. * >> >> In martial arts, sometimes beginners use a sparring dummy before >> practising with real persons. Lojban, being a language suitable for >> human-computer interaction, could have a dumb chatbot for "sparring" >> practice before talking with real persons. I did a *really* basic mockup >> here to show the concept https://jsfiddle.net/gxextk82/10/ Once a user >> has exhausted its repertoire of phrases, the bot could recommended the user >> should connect with the community now that they feel a bit more confident. >> >> >> Anyone, let me know if you want to collaborate on such a project. >> >> >> >> *> **I've considered doing some software development to create a better >> workflow for, say, posting a blog in the language you're learning and >> easily allowing others to comment/correct specific parts* >> >> >> Such software exists already (e.g. Phabricator, or GitHub, or any >> normal code review software). >> >> >> la suzanys and I are hoping to push for a Phabricator platform that will >> help facilitate this and other Lojbanic projects :) We might be able to all >> collaborate on a publication together. >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* loj...@googlegroups.com on behalf of >> Joshua Proehl >> *Sent:* Thursday, 15 September 2016 1:33 PM >> *To:* loj...@googlegroups.com >> *Subject:* Re: [lojban] BPFK has approved cmavo swaps >> >> >> most people seem to simply ignore everything that happens. >>> >>> Many people only ever speak up when they have something to complain >>> about (usually whenever something appears to be changing). Why do none of >>> those people ever participate in anything constructive? Why has everyone >>> been ignoring la uakci's many attempts at getting the community to >>> participate in things like his interactive story or the weekly poems? >> >> >> >> I read the mailing lists, and I enjoy the practice of reading content in >> Lojban. However I am not confident in my ability to produce *correct* >> lojban, and so feel a bit of an imposter. Thus: I lurk. >> >> It's a problem I've had both in learning Lojban and German. Learning to >> produce (write/speak) the language is a completely different skillset than >> learning to understand it, and requires a lot of feedback and corrections. >> Neither of the mailing lists are the place for that sort of content, nor a >> particularly good medium. Were I to contribute content in lojban for >> poems/newsletters it would place a significant editing burden on somebody, >> as I'm simply not up to that level of fluency yet on the creation side. >> >> (Solving this problem seems non-trivial. I've considered doing some >> software development to create a better workflow for, say, posting a blog >> in the language you're learning and easily allowing others to >> comment/correct specific parts, but in order to be valuable you need the >> community of fluent speakers to dedicate time to making >> corrections/comments reliably, and I'm not sure if Lojban has the critical >> mass to make it worth developing.) >> >> I appreciate the content! It's wonderful! Were there a "upvote" button on >> email I would utilize it, but I agree with Timothy Lawrence that it's an >> email/mailing-list etiquette issue. More content to learn from is *always* >> appreciated though, for the record! :-) >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "lojban" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to lojban+un...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lojban. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. ------=_Part_1361_1987725536.1474009720737 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Timothy,

Great! Hope you find it use= ful.

I once had a partial translation to Lojban fo= r the Phabricator interface. It is for an older version, unfortunately. I&#= 39;ll look for the code, and see whether there's something useful I can= do with it.

Until next time,
-- Wei
=
On Friday, September 16, 2016 at 2:25:00 PM UTC+8, Timothy Lawrence wro= te:

coi


.i.ui mi mutce ckire = do

Thanks very much indeed!


I am going to create an account there, "timoteios"= ;, if that's okay. We would like to see if we can use it for hosting a = Lojban website proposal and perhaps other projects.


Let us know at any time if we are overstaying our welcome!


ki'e cai do.

i mi'e la timoteios.


From: Wei Tang <sor...@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, 16 September 2016 3:11 PM
To: lojban
Cc: Timothy Lawrence
Subject: Re: [lojban] BPFK has approved cmavo swaps
=C2=A0
Hi all,

Just in case we want to use Phabricator for project management: I have= a Phabricator instance that is used to host some of my personal projects, = which has been running for more than a year. It is not heavily used, so I c= an offer it for Lojban users for any testing purpose. Here's the url: https://source.that.world

Until next time, have fun!
-- Wei

P.S. Don't know whether that would be a good fit, because Phabrica= tor is mainly for code review, and stuff like that.

On Friday, September 16, 2016 at 12:18:20 PM UTC+8, Timothy Lawrence wrote:

>=C2=A0I am not confident in my ability to produce *correct*= lojban, and so feel a bit of an imposter. Thus: I lurk.=C2=A0

learn a language alone indefinitely. My experience has been that others love beg= inners joining the community and trying (regardless of any=C2=A0mistakes).<= /span>


>=C2=A0I'm simply not up to that level of fluency yet on= the creation side.=C2=A0

In martial arts, sometimes beginners use a sparring dummy before practis= ing with=C2=A0real persons. Lojban, being a language suitable for human-com= puter interaction, could have=C2=A0a dumb=C2= =A0chatbot=C2=A0for "sparring" practice before talking with real persons. I did a=C2= =A0really basic mockup here to show the concept=C2=A0https://jsfiddle.net/gxextk82/10/=C2=A0Once a user has=C2=A0exhausted its repertoire of phrases, the bot=C2=A0could reco= mmended the user should=C2=A0connect with the community now that they=C2=A0= feel a bit more confident.


Anyone,=C2=A0let me know if you want to c= ollaborate on such a project.



>=C2=A0I've considered doing some software develo= pment to create a better workflow for, say, posting a blog in the language = you're learning and easily allowing others to comment/correct specific = parts


Such software exists already (e.g. Phabricator, or=C2=A0GitHub, or=C2=A0= any normal=C2=A0code review software).


la suzanys and I are hoping to push for=C2=A0a Phabricator=C2=A0platform that = will help facilitate this and other Lojbanic projects :) We might be able t= o all collaborate on a publication together.



From: loj...@googlegroups.com <loj= ...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Joshua Proehl <joshua...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, 15 September 2016 1:33 PM
To: loj...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [lojban] BPFK has approved cmavo swaps
=C2=A0

=C2=A0most people seem to simply ignore everything that happens.

Many people only ever speak up when they have something to complain about (= usually whenever something appears to be changing). Why do none of those pe= ople ever participate in anything constructive? Why has everyone been ignor= ing la uakci's many attempts at getting the community to participate in things like his interactive story = or the weekly poems?


I read the mailing lists, and I enjoy the practice of reading content = in Lojban. However I am not confident in my ability to produce *correct* lo= jban, and so feel a bit of an imposter. Thus: I lurk.

It's a problem I've had both in learning Lojban and German. Le= arning to produce (write/speak) the language is a completely different skil= lset than learning to understand it, and requires a lot of feedback and cor= rections. Neither of the mailing lists are the place for that sort of content, nor a particularly good medium. Were I= to contribute content in lojban for poems/newsletters it would place a sig= nificant editing burden on somebody, as I'm simply not up to that level= of fluency yet on the creation side.

(Solving this problem seems non-trivial. I've considered doing some sof= tware development to create a better workflow for, say, posting a blog in t= he language you're learning and easily allowing others to comment/corre= ct specific parts, but in order to be valuable you need the community of fluent speakers to dedicate time to making corre= ctions/comments reliably, and I'm not sure if Lojban has the critical m= ass to make it worth developing.)

I appreciate the content! It's wonderful! Were there a "upvot= e" button on email I would utilize it, but I agree with Timothy Lawren= ce that it's an email/mailing-list etiquette issue. More content to lea= rn from is *always* appreciated though, for the record! :-)

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+un...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroup= s.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsub= scribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http= s://groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit http= s://groups.google.com/d/optout.
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