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[212.227.17.22]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 82si584938wmg.3.2016.09.26.08.31.44 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 26 Sep 2016 08:31:44 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of seladwa@gmx.de designates 212.227.17.22 as permitted sender) client-ip=212.227.17.22; Received: from [192.168.2.128] ([217.246.170.145]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx101) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0M7TQZ-1b3hnL0731-00xGwS for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2016 17:31:44 +0200 Subject: Re: [lojban] A Simpler Connective System (blog article) To: lojban@googlegroups.com References: <453FEC09-0446-4E5E-A82D-FCD596B71A5F@mail.jerrington.me> From: selpahi Message-ID: <7da3b7fb-f99e-ad65-12f6-550176db0fa6@gmx.de> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2016 17:31:49 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <453FEC09-0446-4E5E-A82D-FCD596B71A5F@mail.jerrington.me> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:UdEP1N4TOgJhGmZX3SGjIJLrk1oja6lfQdePsgXj4QGULyyHhXB kXiG+IXdM9iXJGlJ41vX45eH21PqtIBiiAQ4IDcn4dsVze2HSB8fG5Azx2rMGAuh5XdKdan UKxuWQtc4vKU/RsEEElOO3zJiUN+/cBEtUfe9d4f+07tnvE+YQkYny+yrOSZBDQqdqYEi3n B+6KI2WqZ6KFd+UoA9lUw== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:WkqvRTwWjQU=:jetSdw9L/8mQdttELEtwDr M2sk1SJq47s2JjSqMO2D75XWcz2UFtIQWVme+i72kE3auxNlU+re0y44FEmidO10axSJJqeor dkE3mEf8N8Tn+dD2ggpUrWCbT2pegFiLqExXkV4hQ0j3wOO+Hao1mU3/vrJNyApzs1So0znRq /d3EUpnEsdYCzal81I8UvjRGPOM0oOU21+0ZvpMenyGQ0ZQfUhCz4XlZ/gbY6r4tWTuTUQaHT C2PYF1clnUrY7cPkffrJrIpCXOv0gJ2/A+pHvgrf81oWNw30Stsz5+3HKt2sUsnrDxzuGCLhj MHJom5BFvT9NaMHG8Z19he9MzpEs4c8nFj9sH2OEM0HYn2AjB5gFYzagTKbag35j/NFJSgxdA zIVkADBwYMRHcXLjipklXbpz5eoEdjDFT/bZaFcINOiOPWEgq8MOWxdcGQ3g/RVBOLXwXlcAs BABH1IHWBT8+JicTYl57qg2kSW9c0vgLlFhpPxEW+hQCOZ905vQduPD+Tdc57/97Q7Nw/4ZwS W9ioVzJA9a2jrL+4J9fQPjsvgtztKuBjJgT+S1A/I98KL8yNu3nbmgYDTAiPN74Zf9/YStDNC CxEmH8xmrqQzEyMduCU4zN/rUZEkQBdcB8OGDd8gvyh8G9LqiULquAuAIrO5+v1ABiIXq4xQv pKtLZoKTpPWfCdrupf/kFp7H1ZWIVzIGFb87lFoY3yo25gn9LtmUg/lOa3mlwe2GdaJjGyvex ccV4cbi3dSk7QQetQsmZRpzHFIcvp2E2wEh2gWTXHBN1qSrfOkrz0GYZ9p3KrQ2w72KtbPoRV PX22aBH X-Original-Sender: seladwa@gmx.de X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of seladwa@gmx.de designates 212.227.17.22 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=seladwa@gmx.de Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Spam-Checked-In-Group: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.7 X-Spam_score_int: -16 X-Spam_bar: - On 26.09.2016 17:22, Jacob Errington wrote: > In the official grammar, it can be observed that {cu} is a terminator > by noticing that it is elided only when one or more terms precede the > bridi-tail: contrast {ko'a [cu] broda [vau]} with {broda [vau]}. The > proposed connective reform does more than reform connectives. It > alters the operation of {cu}, so that rather act as a bridi-head > elidible terminator, it acts as a bridi-tail elidible *initiator*. {cu} is not really a terminator. The fact that you can't have {cu} without a bridi-tail is evidence of that. If {cu} were really a bridi-head terminator, {ko'a cu} should be a valid fragment. Note also that people think that things like {sei broda cu brode} should be legal. This shows that psychologically {cu} belongs to the tail, rather than the head. Also, {cu} and {vau} don't really form a pair. {vau} appears even in phrases that contain zero {cu}, and the number of {vau} in sentences containing bridi-tails exceeds the number of {cu}. If they were a real pair, they should always appear equally often. > Reforming the overly complex connective system is an excellent goal, > but I am against the means to that end employed in this proposal, > namely the alteration of {cu} to become an elidible initiator (which > would also make it the first of its kind, I think). I like to compare {cu} to FA. A FA is an optional marker for a particular sumti, while {cu} is an optional marker for the selbri. Both FA and CU mark particular slots in the bridi. ~~~mi'e la solpa'i -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.