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From: And Rosta <and.rosta@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2016 15:42:22 +0100
Message-ID: <CACf3dP=gGmf86Zpij2e46_-rr1kg3QKmCcM6c=FSngMWtvob2g@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban] NOIhA (blog article)
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Quick initial comments:

Without poi'a, the purest way to say "you dance beautifully" would be "da
ge nu dansu gi melbi". Likewise "(na) da ge cumki gi nu do sipna", without
soi'a. But poi'a and soi'a are convenient, and noi'a affords something
genuinely new. Indeed, poi'a allows us to neatly say "I expected it to rain
and it did rain" and "I expected it to rain but it didn't" as "(na) carvi
poi'a I expect ke'a".

I think "poi'o'a xagji" is not quite right or necessary as described. "x
leave willingly" is "x cliva poi'a x willing to ke'a", "x leaves and is
willing to do so". So "x leave angrily" is "x cliva poi'a ke'a has the
characteristics of lo nu x angry". Why define poi'o'a so narrowly as "poi'a
ke'a has the characteristics of lo nu vo'a", when it would suffice to use
poi'a plus a version of vo'a that is somehow defined so as to always point
to the right x1? Or otherwise, is there a way to extend poi'o'a to cover
"willingly"?

Of the syntax options, Option 2 looks best for the actual accomplished
user, while Option 1 is best for those who would rather pare away some of
Lojban grammar's overexuberant complexity.

--And.

On 17 October 2016 at 13:43, selpahi <seladwa@gmx.de> wrote:

> The cmavo of selma'o NOIhA are all the hype right now =E2=80=94 everyone'=
s talking
> about them.
>
> I wish.
>
> Somehow most people have never even heard of NOIhA. A good while ago, in
> March 2016 to be exact, I wrote what was to this day the only written
> documentation of NOIhA out there. But... it's in Lojban:
>
> http://selpahi.weebly.com/lojban/zo-xoi-joi-lo-se-srana-be-ri
>
> I think very few people have read that article. Shocking, I know!
>
> Well, anyway.
>
> Since I consider NOIhA absolutely necessary, the best way to raise
> awareness is to write about it in English. That is the purpose of the
> present article.
>
> https://solpahi.wordpress.com/2016/10/13/noiha/
>
> ---
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Quick initial comments:</div><div><br></div><div>With=
out poi&#39;a, the purest way to say &quot;you dance beautifully&quot; woul=
d be &quot;da ge nu dansu gi melbi&quot;. Likewise &quot;(na) da ge cumki g=
i nu do sipna&quot;, without soi&#39;a. But poi&#39;a and soi&#39;a are con=
venient, and noi&#39;a affords something genuinely new. Indeed, poi&#39;a a=
llows us to neatly say &quot;I expected it to rain and it did rain&quot; an=
d &quot;I expected it to rain but it didn&#39;t&quot; as &quot;(na) carvi p=
oi&#39;a I expect ke&#39;a&quot;.</div><div><br></div><div>I think &quot;po=
i&#39;o&#39;a xagji&quot; is not quite right or necessary as described. &qu=
ot;x leave willingly&quot; is &quot;x cliva poi&#39;a x willing to ke&#39;a=
&quot;, &quot;x leaves and is willing to do so&quot;. So &quot;x leave angr=
ily&quot; is &quot;x cliva poi&#39;a ke&#39;a has the characteristics of lo=
 nu x angry&quot;. Why define poi&#39;o&#39;a so narrowly as &quot;poi&#39;=
a ke&#39;a has the characteristics of lo nu vo&#39;a&quot;, when it would s=
uffice to use poi&#39;a plus a version of vo&#39;a that is somehow defined =
so as to always point to the right x1? Or otherwise, is there a way to exte=
nd poi&#39;o&#39;a to cover &quot;willingly&quot;?</div><div><br></div><div=
>Of the syntax options, Option 2 looks best for the actual accomplished use=
r, while Option 1 is best for those who would rather pare away some of Lojb=
an grammar&#39;s overexuberant complexity.</div><div><br></div><div>--And.<=
/div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 17 =
October 2016 at 13:43, selpahi <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sela=
dwa@gmx.de" target=3D"_blank">seladwa@gmx.de</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><bloc=
kquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #cc=
c solid;padding-left:1ex">The cmavo of selma&#39;o NOIhA are all the hype r=
ight now =E2=80=94 everyone&#39;s talking about them.<br>
<br>
I wish.<br>
<br>
Somehow most people have never even heard of NOIhA. A good while ago, in Ma=
rch 2016 to be exact, I wrote what was to this day the only written documen=
tation of NOIhA out there. But... it&#39;s in Lojban:<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"http://selpahi.weebly.com/lojban/zo-xoi-joi-lo-se-srana-be-ri" r=
el=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://selpahi.weebly.com/lojb<wbr>an/z=
o-xoi-joi-lo-se-srana-be-<wbr>ri</a><br>
<br>
I think very few people have read that article. Shocking, I know!<br>
<br>
Well, anyway.<br>
<br>
Since I consider NOIhA absolutely necessary, the best way to raise awarenes=
s is to write about it in English. That is the purpose of the present artic=
le.<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"https://solpahi.wordpress.com/2016/10/13/noiha/" rel=3D"noreferr=
er" target=3D"_blank">https://solpahi.wordpress.com/<wbr>2016/10/13/noiha/<=
/a><br>
<br>
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</font></span></blockquote></div><br></div>

<p></p>

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