Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2017 22:42:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com
To: lojban <lojban@googlegroups.com>
Cc: alexkoz@gmail.com
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Subject: Re: [lojban] Sapir-Whorf hypothesis confirmed. Language does affect thought
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Em domingo, 2 de abril de 2017 01:00:49 UTC+3, Alex Kozhevnikov escreveu:
>
> Links to the original research? Or name of the paper or 
> article/journal it's published in? 
>

Too late. April 1 is over.

The list of definitions was actually procedurally generated by a neural 
network taking English dictionaries and constructing new pseudo-definitions.

But the twitter account will continue posting new definitions in the weeks 
to come.

 
>
> Also, I must admit, many of those words seem extremely situational to 
> me: not useful for long-term retention.


Depends on context. People from Europe don't use the word "kangaroo" a lot. 
People from Australia use it more often.
An "ordinary" person can say "fever", doctors would use a more precise term 
to apply necessary treatment.

 
> Which isn't to say they don't 
> have value, or that this isn't a useful aspect of Lojban: it very much 
> is. The ability to compose them on-the-fly provides much-needed 
> shorthand for prolonged conversations about those concepts, and 
> reduces the "entry cost" of bringing a new mind into conversations 
> about the topic at hand. My only concern is that the average person 
> coming across these terms who isn't already keen on Lojban will only 
> think something along the lines of the first sentence of this 
> paragraph, and come away with an impression that the language is 
> mostly good for constructing toy words, without the deeper 
> consideration needed to realize that it's just good at constructing 
> words for expressing the concepts you want to discuss at the time. 
>
> To be clear, I'm not trying to cast aspersions on the idea of this 
> twitter account or the selection of words. Just something I think is 
> worth considering. I would appreciate a collection of specifically 
> those words which are very useful towards expressing cognition flows 
> and ideas/experiences that aren't trivial to express with more words 
> in English: for example, I personally perceive more deep value in 
> "dreguri", "zveizefi", and "irtire" than, for example, "spatazo", 
> "unrugivo", or "afpapo" (all have value, but the former more strongly 
> suggest the cognition-liberating potential of Lobjan to my mind than 
> the latter). 
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><br>Em domingo, 2 de abril de 2017 01:00:49 UTC+3, Ale=
x Kozhevnikov  escreveu:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: =
0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">Links =
to the original research? Or name of the paper or
<br>article/journal it&#39;s published in?
<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Too late. April 1 is over.</div><div><=
br></div><div>The list of definitions was actually procedurally generated b=
y a neural network taking English dictionaries and constructing new pseudo-=
definitions.</div><div><br></div><div>But the twitter account will continue=
 posting new definitions in the weeks to come.<br></div><div><br></div><div=
>=C2=A0<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margi=
n-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">
<br>Also, I must admit, many of those words seem extremely situational to
<br>me: not useful for long-term retention.</blockquote><div><br></div><div=
>Depends on context. People from Europe don&#39;t use the word &quot;kangar=
oo&quot; a lot. People from Australia use it more often.</div><div>An &quot=
;ordinary&quot; person can say &quot;fever&quot;, doctors would use a more =
precise term to apply necessary treatment.</div><div><br></div><div>=C2=A0<=
/div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8e=
x;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"> Which isn&#39;t to say t=
hey don&#39;t
<br>have value, or that this isn&#39;t a useful aspect of Lojban: it very m=
uch
<br>is. The ability to compose them on-the-fly provides much-needed
<br>shorthand for prolonged conversations about those concepts, and
<br>reduces the &quot;entry cost&quot; of bringing a new mind into conversa=
tions
<br>about the topic at hand. My only concern is that the average person
<br>coming across these terms who isn&#39;t already keen on Lojban will onl=
y
<br>think something along the lines of the first sentence of this
<br>paragraph, and come away with an impression that the language is
<br>mostly good for constructing toy words, without the deeper
<br>consideration needed to realize that it&#39;s just good at constructing
<br>words for expressing the concepts you want to discuss at the time.
<br>
<br>To be clear, I&#39;m not trying to cast aspersions on the idea of this
<br>twitter account or the selection of words. Just something I think is
<br>worth considering. I would appreciate a collection of specifically
<br>those words which are very useful towards expressing cognition flows
<br>and ideas/experiences that aren&#39;t trivial to express with more word=
s
<br>in English: for example, I personally perceive more deep value in
<br>&quot;dreguri&quot;, &quot;zveizefi&quot;, and &quot;irtire&quot; than,=
 for example, &quot;spatazo&quot;,
<br>&quot;unrugivo&quot;, or &quot;afpapo&quot; (all have value, but the fo=
rmer more strongly
<br>suggest the cognition-liberating potential of Lobjan to my mind than
<br>the latter).
<br></blockquote></div>

<p></p>

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