Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2017 15:34:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: vpbroman@gmail.com
To: lojban <lojban@googlegroups.com>
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Subject: [lojban] Apologia, using h instead of yhy
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I was questioned on my usually using "h" instead of " ' " in lojban,
so I would like to explain my reasoning and usage preference,
and I invite constructive criticism, since I am surely open to reason in 
reconsidering the issue.

First, like every supreme court justice nominee I have ever heard,
I understand the great value of "stare decicis", "let what is decided 
stand".
Zamenhof laid down the unchangeable Fundamento to avoid the chaos
of endless amendments by creative conlangers.
Still which "decisis" are the ones that must "stare"?

From 1955, TLI loglan had no kind of "h" or "x" until 1981,
when the former was added as a regular consonant phoneme,
and the latter was its special-case colleague.
This is still true of TLI Loglan.
By 1989, LLG loglan/lojban arose with a regular consonant "x" and a special 
" ' ".

In CLL1, the pronunciation is canonical, even if inexact,
but for the orthography there is a standard form,
as well as two alternatives that seem to be accepted (Cyrillic and Tengwar),
plus the International Phonetic Alphabet, IPA, used as the standard by 
which you define everything else.
That is four orthographies.

In the usage of other lojbanists I see experiments in orthography,
e.g. the grave accents placed on accented vowels,
or the underdots or over-breves placed on semivowels, or even a few people 
using h.
I think my usage is not far from the mainstream,
and I coexist happily with those who write differently.

My actual extremest position is to use IPA in a broad transcription when 
your fonts support it,
but to do CLL with h when ASCII-only is required.
The IPA is a very widely accepted international standard.
An IPA dress for lojban does not look that strange or different; see this 
example.

<https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-QhCJoJuyYo4/WU2TSwKPGII/AAAAAAAAAK0/FGRJOHGog04BlOq-NFyVj9__miCOT0E_gCLcBGAs/s1600/ipa-example.png>

Now, which spelling is better and why?

In CLL1 3.3 the apostrophe, period, and comma are grouped together as 
characters that divide syllables,
but the period and comma are silent ways of separating words or syllables,
while the apostrophe is an audible way to separate syllables
in precisely the same way that "t" separates the syllables in "mlatu".
Nothing special there.

In the same section, we read
    The letter "h" is not used to represent this sound for two reasons:
    primarily in order to simplify explanations of the morphology,
    but also because the sound is very common, and the apostrophe
    is a visually lightweight representation of it.

The sound is not so very common as to justifying it being a special case.
In 130000 words of lojban I can quickly lay my hands on, the letter 
frequencies are as follows.
55421 i
46986 a
43758 u
38175 o
36048 l
27341 e
26722 n
21790 h/'
20522 c
17803 s
16437 r
14279 m
13755 t
13551 k
10828 d
 9181 b
 8832 p
 7037 j
 5199 g
 5017 f
 4713 y
 4250 z
 4130 v
 3530 x
The h trails behind all the basic vowels and behind the consonants l and n, 
too, in frequency of use.

Even the measured time it takes to pronounce h, 77-109 msec for me,
similar in published results for other languages, is not like quicksilver.
In this respect, h is one of the faster fricatives, but in the middle of 
the pack for vowels, stops, and liquids.
So, why does it need a "lightweight" graphical representation?

What about the argument that spelling with apostrophe instead of h
simplifies explanations of morphology?
Except for "e" and "o" having the same phonology rules,
every other pair of letters differs in its allowed usages -- they are all 
special cases.
The h is far more constrained than the other consonants in its usage,
but it appears in every type of word except the gismu.

I think the principal rule that makes h seem special is the constraint
that brivla have a consonant pair in the first five letters of the word, 
after excluding h and y.
Still, if in this respect h is not a real consonant and y is not a real 
vowel,
then why is y allowed in the alphabet, but h not?

In terms of practical convenience, it is nice to be able to search in an 
editor for whole words
and have the editor software agree with you about what characters occur in 
words.
Typing /[a-z]+/ is much nicer than /[a-z',]+/.
And who wants to have to hack emacs syntax tables to search for words?

So, after I come to the conclusion that h/' ought to be in the alphabet as 
much as y or any consonant,
I think about how best to represent it.
The answer to that depends on past usage in other languages and on our 
desire to take advantage of
habit and familiarity to assist those learning lojban.
All the languages with latin alphabets that I know of that use the h sound
also use the h grapheme to represent it.
French lacks the sound so it uses the letter as a separator.
Spanish has only x which is written j.
Ancient Greek used to have a rough breathing sound represented by
a left-side arc or the left half of capital HTA,
  while the apostrophe-looking mark represented the lack of an h at the 
start of a word.
Modern Greek has no h sound, just a x.

The use of "h" for the unvoiced glottal fricative seems like a slam dunk 
choice to me.

mihe la bremenli

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><p class=3D"separator" style=3D"text-align: center; clear:=
 both;"><br></p>I was questioned on my usually using &quot;h&quot; instead =
of &quot; &#39; &quot; in lojban,<br>so I would like to explain my reasonin=
g and usage preference,<br>and I invite constructive criticism, since I am =
surely open to reason in reconsidering the issue.<br><br>First, like every =
supreme court justice nominee I have ever heard,<br>I understand the great =
value of &quot;stare decicis&quot;, &quot;let what is decided stand&quot;.<=
br>Zamenhof laid down the unchangeable Fundamento to avoid the chaos<br>of =
endless amendments by creative conlangers.<br>Still which &quot;decisis&quo=
t; are the ones that must &quot;stare&quot;?<br><br>From 1955, TLI loglan h=
ad no kind of &quot;h&quot; or &quot;x&quot; until 1981,<br>when the former=
 was added as a regular consonant phoneme,<br>and the latter was its specia=
l-case colleague.<br>This is still true of TLI Loglan.<br>By 1989, LLG logl=
an/lojban arose with a regular consonant &quot;x&quot; and a special &quot;=
 &#39; &quot;.<br><br>In CLL1, the pronunciation is canonical, even if inex=
act,<br>but for the orthography there is a standard form,<br>as well as two=
 alternatives that seem to be accepted (Cyrillic and Tengwar),<br>plus the =
International Phonetic Alphabet, IPA, used as the standard by which you def=
ine everything else.<br>That is four orthographies.<br><br>In the usage of =
other lojbanists I see experiments in orthography,<br>e.g. the grave accent=
s placed on accented vowels,<br>or the underdots or over-breves placed on s=
emivowels, or even a few people using h.<br>I think my usage is not far fro=
m the mainstream,<br>and I coexist happily with those who write differently=
.<br><br>My actual extremest position is to use IPA in a broad transcriptio=
n when your fonts support it,<br>but to do CLL with h when ASCII-only is re=
quired.<br>The IPA is a very widely accepted international standard.<br>An =
IPA dress for lojban does not look that strange or different; see this exam=
ple.<br><p class=3D"separator" style=3D"text-align: center; clear: both;"><=
a href=3D"https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-QhCJoJuyYo4/WU2TSwKPGII/AAAAAA=
AAAK0/FGRJOHGog04BlOq-NFyVj9__miCOT0E_gCLcBGAs/s1600/ipa-example.png" style=
=3D"margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img style=3D"" src=3D"https://lh=
3.googleusercontent.com/-QhCJoJuyYo4/WU2TSwKPGII/AAAAAAAAAK0/FGRJOHGog04BlO=
q-NFyVj9__miCOT0E_gCLcBGAs/s400/ipa-example.png" width=3D"400" border=3D"0"=
 height=3D"56"></a></p><br>Now, which spelling is better and why?<br><br>In=
 CLL1 3.3 the apostrophe, period, and comma are grouped together as charact=
ers that divide syllables,<br>but the period and comma are silent ways of s=
eparating words or syllables,<br>while the apostrophe is an audible way to =
separate syllables<br>in precisely the same way that &quot;t&quot; separate=
s the syllables in &quot;mlatu&quot;.<br>Nothing special there.<br><br>In t=
he same section, we read<br>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 The letter &quot;h&quot; is =
not used to represent this sound for two reasons:<br>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 pri=
marily in order to simplify explanations of the morphology,<br>=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0 but also because the sound is very common, and the apostrophe<br>=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 is a visually lightweight representation of it.<br><br>The =
sound is not so very common as to justifying it being a special case.<br>In=
 130000 words of lojban I can quickly lay my hands on, the letter frequenci=
es are as follows.<br>55421 i<br>46986 a<br>43758 u<br>38175 o<br>36048 l<b=
r>27341 e<br>26722 n<br>21790 h/&#39;<br>20522 c<br>17803 s<br>16437 r<br>1=
4279 m<br>13755 t<br>13551 k<br>10828 d<br>=C2=A09181 b<br>=C2=A08832 p<br>=
=C2=A07037 j<br>=C2=A05199 g<br>=C2=A05017 f<br>=C2=A04713 y<br>=C2=A04250 =
z<br>=C2=A04130 v<br>=C2=A03530 x<br>The h trails behind all the basic vowe=
ls and behind the consonants l and n, too, in frequency of use.<br><br>Even=
 the measured time it takes to pronounce h, 77-109 msec for me,<br>similar =
in published results for other languages, is not like quicksilver.<br>In th=
is respect, h is one of the faster fricatives, but in the middle of the pac=
k for vowels, stops, and liquids.<br>So, why does it need a &quot;lightweig=
ht&quot; graphical representation?<br><br>What about the argument that spel=
ling with apostrophe instead of h<br>simplifies explanations of morphology?=
<br>Except for &quot;e&quot; and &quot;o&quot; having the same phonology ru=
les,<br>every other pair of letters differs in its allowed usages -- they a=
re all special cases.<br>The h is far more constrained than the other conso=
nants in its usage,<br>but it appears in every type of word except the gism=
u.<br><br>I think the principal rule that makes h seem special is the const=
raint<br>that brivla have a consonant pair in the first five letters of the=
 word, after excluding h and y.<br>Still, if in this respect h is not a rea=
l consonant and y is not a real vowel,<br>then why is y allowed in the alph=
abet, but h not?<br><br>In terms of practical convenience, it is nice to be=
 able to search in an editor for whole words<br>and have the editor softwar=
e agree with you about what characters occur in words.<br>Typing /[a-z]+/ i=
s much nicer than /[a-z&#39;,]+/.<br>And who wants to have to hack emacs sy=
ntax tables to search for words?<br><br>So, after I come to the conclusion =
that h/&#39; ought to be in the alphabet as much as y or any consonant,<br>=
I think about how best to represent it.<br>The answer to that depends on pa=
st usage in other languages and on our desire to take advantage of<br>habit=
 and familiarity to assist those learning lojban.<br>All the languages with=
 latin alphabets that I know of that use the h sound<br>also use the h grap=
heme to represent it.<br>French lacks the sound so it uses the letter as a =
separator.<br>Spanish has only x which is written j.<br>Ancient Greek used =
to have a rough breathing sound represented by<br>a left-side arc or the le=
ft half of capital HTA,<br>=C2=A0 while the apostrophe-looking mark represe=
nted the lack of an h at the start of a word.<br>Modern Greek has no h soun=
d, just a x.<br><br>The use of &quot;h&quot; for the unvoiced glottal frica=
tive seems like a slam dunk choice to me.<br><br>mihe la bremenli<br><br></=
div>

<p></p>

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