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From: "Mike S." <maikxlx@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2017 22:36:26 -0400
Message-ID: <CAOYwWb0ew6z3HwciNhUzAs-rwxUYEiWbdP7oTDU+apk7D4xUgw@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban] Apologia, using h instead of yhy
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Nice arguments; it's been hashed for decades.  The Lojban apostrophe is the
symbol for a certain sort of semi- or degenerate-consonant sound that is
only allowed to appear between vowels, and not near another consonant or a
pause.  There is a certain logic to it.  The distribution of <'> is quite
distinct from that of other consonants.  Also, there is a competing
argument, not mentioned on this thread, that <h> should cover /x/.

Looking at the bigger picture, if there was one thing I could change about
Lojban orthography, it'd be the use of <.> as a phonological segment, and
the need to place it front of cmevla.  That's a worse aesthetic offense
than the Lojban apostrophe ever was; IMHO it's downright jarring.  One
might have the wish to back up and change a few things at once.  Most
likely it's never going to happen though, since nothing about Lojban
orthography is broken in a fundamental way.  It works.  It just pokes a
finger in the eye of Latin-spelled languages, especially with that
abominable initial <.>.

BTW, I agree that breathy-voiced h for <'> is the way forward.

Best,
-Mike


On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 10:05 PM, Mark E. Shoulson <mark@kli.org> wrote:

> I've been saying essentially this for many years.  Thanks.
>
> ~mark
>
> On 06/23/2017 06:34 PM, vpbroman@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
> I was questioned on my usually using "h" instead of " ' " in lojban,
> so I would like to explain my reasoning and usage preference,
> and I invite constructive criticism, since I am surely open to reason in
> reconsidering the issue.
>
> .....
>
> --
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>


-- 
co ma'a mke

Xorban blog: Xorban.wordpress.com <http://xorban.wordpress.com/>
My LL blog: Loglang.wordpress.com <http://loglang.wordpress.com/>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Nice arguments; it&#39;s been hashed for decades.=C2=A0 Th=
e Lojban apostrophe is the symbol for a certain sort of semi- or degenerate=
-consonant sound that is only allowed to appear between vowels, and not nea=
r another consonant or a pause.=C2=A0 There is a certain logic to it.=C2=A0=
 The distribution of &lt;&#39;&gt; is quite distinct from that of other con=
sonants.=C2=A0 Also, there is a competing argument, not mentioned on this t=
hread, that &lt;h&gt; should cover /x/.<br><div><br>Looking at the bigger p=
icture, if there was one thing I could change about Lojban orthography, it&=
#39;d be the use of &lt;.&gt; as a phonological segment, and the need to pl=
ace it front of cmevla.=C2=A0 That&#39;s a worse aesthetic offense than the=
 Lojban apostrophe ever was; IMHO it&#39;s downright jarring.=C2=A0 One mig=
ht have the wish to back up and change a few things at once.=C2=A0 Most lik=
ely it&#39;s never going to happen though, since nothing about Lojban ortho=
graphy is broken in a fundamental way.=C2=A0 It works.=C2=A0 It just pokes =
a finger in the eye of Latin-spelled languages, especially with that abomin=
able initial &lt;.&gt;.<br><br></div><div>BTW, I agree that breathy-voiced =
h for &lt;&#39;&gt; is the way forward.<br><br></div><div>Best,<br></div><d=
iv>-Mike<br></div><div><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 10:05 PM, Mark E. Shoulson <span d=
ir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mark@kli.org" target=3D"_blank">mark@kli.o=
rg</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"marg=
in:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1e=
x">
 =20
   =20
 =20
  <div bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF">
    <div class=3D"gmail-m_3780582790331249756moz-cite-prefix">I&#39;ve been=
 saying essentially this for
      many years.=C2=A0 Thanks.<span class=3D"gmail-HOEnZb"><font color=3D"=
#888888"><br>
      <br>
      ~mark</font></span><span class=3D"gmail-"><br>
      <br>
      On 06/23/2017 06:34 PM, <a class=3D"gmail-m_3780582790331249756moz-tx=
t-link-abbreviated" href=3D"mailto:vpbroman@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">vp=
broman@gmail.com</a> wrote:<br>
    </span></div><span class=3D"gmail-">
    <blockquote type=3D"cite">
      <div dir=3D"ltr">
        <p class=3D"gmail-m_3780582790331249756separator" style=3D"text-ali=
gn:center;clear:both"><br>
        </p>
        I was questioned on my usually using &quot;h&quot; instead of &quot=
; &#39; &quot; in
        lojban,<br>
        so I would like to explain my reasoning and usage preference,<br>
        and I invite constructive criticism, since I am surely open to
        reason in reconsidering the issue.</div>
    </blockquote></span>
    .....
  </div><div class=3D"gmail-HOEnZb"><div class=3D"gmail-h5">


<p></p>

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et=3D"_blank">https://groups.google.com/d/<wbr>optout</a>.<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><div class=
=3D"gmail_signature">co ma&#39;a mke<br><br>Xorban blog: <a href=3D"http://=
xorban.wordpress.com/" target=3D"_blank">Xorban.wordpress.com</a><br>My LL =
blog: <a href=3D"http://loglang.wordpress.com/" target=3D"_blank">Loglang.w=
ordpress.com</a> <br></div>
</div></div>

<p></p>

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