Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2017 22:08:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: vpbroman@gmail.com
To: lojban <lojban@googlegroups.com>
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Subject: [lojban] bridi mathematics
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*The fact that lojban mekso represents a subset of the language that is 
complex, little-used, and** a burden to learn, makes me as a mathematician 
wonder whether we could could still express ourselves **in** math**ematical 
terms** with much simpler verbal tools, and let the complex cruft either 
get decommissioned, or just die of benign neglect. Lispers are confident 
that all computations can be expressed with lists and functions. Bridi seem 
general enough to do whatever needs doing. I investigated how well we might 
do just using PA and bridi**, **inspired by** these two essays**, but with 
less revolution**.*

*http://teddyb.org/robin/tiki-index.php?page=Lojban%2C+Math%2C+mekso%2C+and+bridi+cmaci*

*https://github.com/RossOgilvie/essays/blob/master/source/fancu%20bridi%20mekso.md*

*It turns out that without changing the grammar, it's hard to do complex 
quantifiers (you end up saying **"**poi zilkancu**"**) and nearly 
impossible to do complex subscripts. So, we end up needing bridi, PA, VEI, 
VEhO, and MOhE, assuming the current grammar. La camgusmis points out that **with 
bridi **you **often **get intricately nested BE/BEI/BEhO constructions that 
**can **become a mess, so a coinage like **"**nihai**"** or **"**poihi**"* 
*with**in the NU **part of speech* *greatly **simplifies the appearance of 
nested expressions.*

*Attached are all the **relevant **mekso examples in CLL11 extracted for a 
comparison test, where I append to each one a restatement achieved without 
most of the mekso grammar, just using my subset** with bridi**. In terms of 
verbosity, the specialized mekso form in these samples saves about 30% in 
syllables, compared to bridi math. In my view the simplicity achieved **by 
the longer bridi expressions **would be worth **the verbosity**, especially 
since bridi math is easily extensible by coining words, while mekso syntax 
is fixed**,** and crossing the boundary between **mekso and bridi** is *
*effortful.*

*One should note in addition, that all the bridi equations I cite could be 
simplified at the top level just like the following example** by omitting 
the "du"**: "li mu cu du lo nihai sumji li re li ci kei" becomes "li mu cu 
sumji li re li ci", saving 5 syllables each time, at the cost of looking a 
little different from math**.*

*mihe la bremenli*

mekso-bridi.pdf

https://app.box.com/s/mvasmtp4dmlz9wzfx1jdhu4knkpj4gmb

mekso-bridi.odt

https://app.box.com/s/6nk1ysst94896cobk82i14sc9u6vg9zc

mekso-syllables.txt

https://app.box.com/s/qsydv85ska6mc43nx4k2jl1rle9un59h


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tyle>


<p><strong><span style=3D"font-weight: normal">The fact that lojban
mekso represents a subset of the language that is complex,
little-used, and</span></strong><strong><span style=3D"font-weight: normal"=
>
a burden to learn, makes me as a mathematician wonder whether we
could could still express ourselves </span></strong><strong><span style=3D"=
font-weight: normal">in</span></strong><strong><span style=3D"font-weight: =
normal">
math</span></strong><strong><span style=3D"font-weight: normal">ematical
terms</span></strong><strong><span style=3D"font-weight: normal"> with
much simpler verbal tools, and let the complex cruft either get
decommissioned, or just die of benign neglect. Lispers are confident
that all computations can be expressed with lists and functions.
Bridi seem general enough to do whatever needs doing. I investigated
how well we might do just using PA and bridi</span></strong><strong><span s=
tyle=3D"font-weight: normal">,
</span></strong><strong><span style=3D"font-weight: normal">inspired by</sp=
an></strong><strong><span style=3D"font-weight: normal">
these two essays</span></strong><strong><span style=3D"font-weight: normal"=
>,
but with less revolution</span></strong><strong><span style=3D"font-weight:=
 normal">.</span></strong></p>
<p><strong><span style=3D"font-weight: normal">http://teddyb.org/robin/tiki=
-index.php?page=3DLojban%2C+Math%2C+mekso%2C+and+bridi+cmaci</span></strong=
></p>
<p><strong><span style=3D"font-weight: normal">https://github.com/RossOgilv=
ie/essays/blob/master/source/fancu%20bridi%20mekso.md</span></strong></p>
<p><strong><span style=3D"font-weight: normal">It turns out that
without changing the grammar, it&#39;s hard to do complex quantifiers
(you end up saying </span></strong><strong><span style=3D"font-weight: norm=
al">&quot;</span></strong><strong><span style=3D"font-weight: normal">poi
zilkancu</span></strong><strong><span style=3D"font-weight: normal">&quot;<=
/span></strong><strong><span style=3D"font-weight: normal">)
and nearly impossible to do complex subscripts. So, we end up needing
bridi, PA, VEI, VEhO, and MOhE, assuming the current grammar. La
camgusmis points out that </span></strong><strong><span style=3D"font-weigh=
t: normal">with
bridi </span></strong><strong><span style=3D"font-weight: normal">you
</span></strong><strong><span style=3D"font-weight: normal">often </span></=
strong><strong><span style=3D"font-weight: normal">get
intricately nested BE/BEI/BEhO constructions that </span></strong><strong><=
span style=3D"font-weight: normal">can
</span></strong><strong><span style=3D"font-weight: normal">become a
mess, so a coinage like </span></strong><strong><span style=3D"font-weight:=
 normal">&quot;</span></strong><strong><span style=3D"font-weight: normal">=
nihai</span></strong><strong><span style=3D"font-weight: normal">&quot;</sp=
an></strong><strong><span style=3D"font-weight: normal">
or </span></strong><strong><span style=3D"font-weight: normal">&quot;</span=
></strong><strong><span style=3D"font-weight: normal">poihi</span></strong>=
<strong><span style=3D"font-weight: normal">&quot;</span></strong><strong><=
span style=3D"font-weight: normal">
</span></strong><strong><span style=3D"font-weight: normal">with</span></st=
rong><strong><span style=3D"font-weight: normal">in
the NU </span></strong><strong><span style=3D"font-weight: normal">part
of speech</span></strong><strong><span style=3D"font-weight: normal">
</span></strong><strong><span style=3D"font-weight: normal">greatly
</span></strong><strong><span style=3D"font-weight: normal">simplifies
the appearance of nested expressions.</span></strong></p>
<p><strong><span style=3D"font-weight: normal">Attached are all the
</span></strong><strong><span style=3D"font-weight: normal">relevant
</span></strong><strong><span style=3D"font-weight: normal">mekso
examples in CLL11 extracted for a comparison test, where I append to
each one a restatement achieved without most of the mekso grammar,
just using my subset</span></strong><strong><span style=3D"font-weight: nor=
mal">
with bridi</span></strong><strong><span style=3D"font-weight: normal">.
In terms of verbosity, the specialized mekso form in these samples
saves about 30% in syllables, compared to bridi math. In my view the
simplicity achieved </span></strong><strong><span style=3D"font-weight: nor=
mal">by
the longer bridi expressions </span></strong><strong><span style=3D"font-we=
ight: normal">would
be worth </span></strong><strong><span style=3D"font-weight: normal">the
verbosity</span></strong><strong><span style=3D"font-weight: normal">,
especially since bridi math is easily extensible by coining words,
while mekso syntax is fixed</span></strong><strong><span style=3D"font-weig=
ht: normal">,</span></strong><strong><span style=3D"font-weight: normal">
and crossing the boundary between </span></strong><strong><span style=3D"fo=
nt-weight: normal">mekso
and bridi</span></strong><strong><span style=3D"font-weight: normal">
is </span></strong><strong><span style=3D"font-weight: normal">effortful.</=
span></strong></p>
<p><strong><span style=3D"font-weight: normal">One should note in
addition, that all the bridi equations I cite could be simplified at
the top level just like the following example</span></strong><strong><span =
style=3D"font-weight: normal">
by omitting the &quot;du&quot;</span></strong><strong><span style=3D"font-w=
eight: normal">:
&quot;li mu cu du lo nihai sumji li re li ci kei&quot; becomes &quot;li
mu cu sumji li re li ci&quot;, saving 5 syllables each time, at the
cost of looking a little different from math</span></strong><strong><span s=
tyle=3D"font-weight: normal">.</span></strong><strong><span style=3D"font-w=
eight: normal"><br></span></strong></p><p><strong>mihe la bremenli</strong>=
</p><p>mekso-bridi.pdf<br></p><p>https://app.box.com/s/mvasmtp4dmlz9wzfx1jd=
hu4knkpj4gmb</p><p>mekso-bridi.odt</p><p>https://app.box.com/s/6nk1ysst9489=
6cobk82i14sc9u6vg9zc</p><p>mekso-syllables.txt</p><p>https://app.box.com/s/=
qsydv85ska6mc43nx4k2jl1rle9un59h<br></p>
<p><br>
<br>

</p>

</div>

<p></p>

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