Received: from mail-yw0-f184.google.com ([209.85.161.184]:33061) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.87) (envelope-from ) id 1dZtQP-0000bC-Cl for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Mon, 24 Jul 2017 23:34:36 -0700 Received: by mail-yw0-f184.google.com with SMTP id s143sf1974473ywg.0 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 2017 23:34:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20161025; h=sender:date:from:to:cc:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject :mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe; bh=Hk2Z4pDP4BPxuRtoMYtzm225LMpbFIEWwj1RXHidKRM=; b=iUZ1z6Mwl8c9Dt8LS2C1n9DjAbOpzbl6UQ4x6UebZV7iRFYyoOeby2TYs+cCBPsHIi LgWH2KO1weewiAgT0g9K+eE984sfPIKBepznXJAIXDXQ7iApiExv5Dow6AoQwMGRgiCg /341HL0HDDEQN3AUC0sC0AWG7IvEondbqMDXuPhMhsaZEe2m2/yIBqbv5fog12mnNqwv eZbzlKMyktF5iPTfnP2EO+sHSTMSgAr7K8ccimPPApCTKsK/Wz314yziA1sfoWsK2Hb2 86Qwe5ivpAKMVsEncBU4P1r3MeN+PJamlUsT1PZCTtGceaVAH7lHbS8JTtd5uUYPUYeW t2KA== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=date:from:to:cc:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject :mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe; bh=Hk2Z4pDP4BPxuRtoMYtzm225LMpbFIEWwj1RXHidKRM=; b=QBrtoZLF8JRDfMAvzGyAG6HhjeFZDk/JXMvL53Bd/fN3t5NHut8TZ7St0m09xZCHGP 1DOEt+LLFs31YwyyuESkRRakpZUH1GISZ0hoUgIZssWSXisglTAOpoH3ZykfDA2HYq+C dgzbD4qJ4lQxs9BLdHV6GzuWAuTxxkyj6vPWg4Ej/1+sFhn6lcmP5JJWGgtpdmHhSoUo Wv9ztRX09g/Rsq0eaMRQUcbDK5Y+hH4Dcy4L6DhR4AE1ZTIB9l08CCPc1PfSKrBsNkjB LLrDe/kTDal/33HLr3ckHMls51lUleO0zSgiA6InOZFYUDt6jpwp0gYhYuPgSveRCdHm Xr4g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=sender:x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:cc:message-id:in-reply-to :references:subject:mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post :list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=Hk2Z4pDP4BPxuRtoMYtzm225LMpbFIEWwj1RXHidKRM=; b=Sz4wutUvtvNz0v6OPKG9Eo3cnnhvMNI44AbI/35eFu18oAh51F8aiAuWH4jRx79Cif guGJeIMACLuwTSQbTBxywaqUt1Cj3ac5WrKii+o12JEJQ5DmiZKEm6XaOkRjiUbr0A35 P7nzuVeXpf8FJI0LRccUSBBoNjxqdo0Pudr11UtXbjTr60SuRodHhpcZCQsYp9e0/0o9 xI/nEAWA0WgLfVMHOSUKBmocz367jKM7f/gAg/sG6b+YVKRr7c9MRo6vIr0/bXlHg7Fd /1NLuoMamImPhWjDZutKahPIT5HCiIJQc7f7A7au2cYBtPzNPb2mB17IpsPdd1VxSOih tqxg== Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Gm-Message-State: AIVw110Mmuik/rJZTlRGe1R4tzcVNGRgyIaaJ8l13In0V3CdVRB2K9Qb dAD3IF40JTmZcw== X-Received: by 10.36.122.82 with SMTP id a79mr256573itc.13.1500964464836; Mon, 24 Jul 2017 23:34:24 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.36.154.195 with SMTP id l186ls4150084ite.19.canary-gmail; Mon, 24 Jul 2017 23:34:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.31.178.139 with SMTP id b133mr79472vkf.18.1500964464327; Mon, 24 Jul 2017 23:34:24 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2017 23:34:24 -0700 (PDT) From: gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com To: lojban Cc: phma@bezitopo.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <57931E14-272E-41B0-804D-F79124A8515C@free.fr> References: <7c9af3ab-e923-4962-b00c-e0ae3e04c7f6@googlegroups.com> <1632759.raavQlmmmI@caracal> <57931E14-272E-41B0-804D-F79124A8515C@free.fr> Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: unicode locale library MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_3984_1899260555.1500964464101" X-Original-Sender: gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Spam-Checked-In-Group: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -1.8 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.8 X-Spam_score_int: -17 X-Spam_bar: - ------=_Part_3984_1899260555.1500964464101 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_3985_469070717.1500964464102" ------=_Part_3985_469070717.1500964464102 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Em sexta-feira, 21 de julho de 2017 10:51:53 UTC+3, Benoit Neil escreveu: > > coi ro do=20 > > Well I agree about the fact the language is young, but if one uses this= =20 > fact as an argument for not pushing spell check dictionaries, then I gues= s=20 > the language will never spread!=20 > > Dictionaries evolve. I am convinced that we'd better have incomplete an= =20 > not fully accurate dicts rather than no dicts at all. It may (should) be= =20 > updated later on. And better having basic spell check without grammar=20 > check, rather than nothing at all.=20 > Don't you think?=20 > > I'd love seeing at least partial support of Lojban in Hunspell,=20 > LibreOffice, Notepad++, Android default keyboard(s), and many others. Th= e=20 > more software bricks have support, the more people will accept the effort= =20 > of adding or improving support for other software and systems (and I gues= s=20 > starting with open sourced will push closed source to move).=20 > > How can we help? Which software library / system should we start with (to= =20 > get the greatest impact)? Which source of vocabulary should we use?=20 > Any idea?=20 > > And what about translation websites? Is it too early to start thinking=20 > about including Lojban in popular 3rd-party ones?=20 > > By the way, I'm pretty sure a good Lojban keayboard+spell/grammar check= =20 > (in the future) could include very fine rules about deducing next word to= =20 > type (as most mobile-like virtual keyboards nowadays). Imagine your mobil= e=20 > device "remembering" you just typed "be", and automatically let two "bei"= =20 > and "be'o" buttons appear on-screen until some terminator closes the=20 > block... :-)=20 > On Android you can just use Multiling with Lojban and "Next word" plugins. Yes, it has to learn from your typing. You can make it learn faster using:=20 Settings =E2=86=92 word prediction =E2=86=92 word prediction =E2=86=92 Trai= n next word. Not that it's an ideal piece of software, it's the only one for Lojban yet. > About the French reform, well that's an old debate now. As for coding=20 > rules (formatting, naming), and as for laws, nobody 100% agrees the=20 > conventions, apart from those who wrote them! But the most important is= =20 > that communication is facilitated, by ensuring people use the same=20 > conventions and rules.=20 > > co'o=20 > > > > Le 20 juillet 2017 19:15:24 CEST, Pierre Abbat > a =C3=A9crit :=20 > >On Thursday, July 13, 2017 6:58:33 AM EDT suke...@gmail.com =20 > wrote:=20 > >> Great job.=20 > >>=20 > >> But I guess this is only the beginning. Standard OS inputs methods=20 > >should=20 > >> have proper dictionaries, and I wish that dictionaries spread out=20 > >too. It's=20 > >> already a pain having a proper spelling / grammar checking for=20 > >widespread=20 > >> OSes (Linux, Windows, Android, iOS...) in my mother's tongue language= =20 > >(*),=20 > >> so I guess it would be much more difficult for Lojban.=20 > >=20 > >Grammar checking can be done algorithmically, but since the language is= =20 > >fairly=20 > >young and people are still making up lots of words, a spell checker=20 > >would be=20 > >difficult. However, there is no inflection of open classes in Lojban,=20 > >so there=20 > >cannot be arguments like "mosquitoes/mosquitos".=20 > >=20 > >> (*) It's been 27 years that a reform of French orthography has been=20 > >> official. However, Android still uses the old one (AFAIK), and=20 > >Windows let=20 > >> you choose the one you want in a deep buried option (which default to= =20 > >> "old").=20 > >=20 > >I prefer the new way of writing numbers because it makes clear in=20 > >writing the=20 > >distinction between e.g. 52/1100 and 50/2100, and I like "cig=C3=BCe, ai= g=C3=BCe,=20 > >et=20 > >ambig=C3=BCe" better than "cigu=C3=AB, aigu=C3=AB, et ambigu=C3=AB". But= some words just=20 > >look=20 > >wrong without their circumflex. i to la'o fy. cig=C3=BCe .fy. cu vindu= =20 > >rulsantyspa=20 > >.i la'o fy. aig=C3=BCe .fy. cu kinli .i la'o fy. ambig=C3=BCe .fy. cu sm= uvrici=20 > >=20 > >mu'omi'e .piier.=20 > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. ------=_Part_3985_469070717.1500964464102 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Em sexta-feira, 21 de julho de 2017 10:51:53 UTC+3= , Benoit Neil escreveu:
coi ro= do

Well I agree about the fact the language is young, but if one uses this= fact as an argument for not pushing spell check dictionaries, then I guess= the language will never spread!

Dictionaries evolve. I am convinced that we'd better have incomplet= e an not fully accurate dicts rather than no dicts at all. It may (should) = be updated later on. And better having basic spell check without grammar ch= eck, rather than nothing at all.
Don't you think?

I'd love seeing at least partial support of Lojban in Hunspell, Lib= reOffice, Notepad++, =C2=A0Android default keyboard(s), and many others. Th= e more software bricks have support, the more people will accept the effort= of adding or improving support for other software and systems (and I guess= starting with open sourced will push closed source to move).

How can we help? Which software library / system should we start with (= to get the greatest impact)? Which source of vocabulary should we use?
Any idea?

And what about translation websites? Is it too early to start thinking = about including Lojban in popular 3rd-party ones?

By the way, I'm pretty sure a good Lojban keayboard+spell/grammar c= heck (in the future) could include very fine rules about deducing next word= to type (as most mobile-like virtual keyboards nowadays). Imagine your mob= ile device "remembering" you just typed "be", and autom= atically let two "bei" and "be'o" buttons appear on= -screen until some terminator closes the block... :-)

On Android you can just use Multiling = with Lojban and "Next word" plugins.
Yes, it = has to learn from your typing.
You can make it learn faster= using:=C2=A0
Settings =E2=86=92 word prediction =E2=86=92 word p= rediction =E2=86=92 Train next word.

Not that it&#= 39;s an ideal piece of software, it's the only one for Lojban yet.



About the French reform, well that's an old debate now. As for codi= ng rules (formatting, naming), and as for laws, nobody 100% agrees the conv= entions, apart from those who wrote them! But the most important is that co= mmunication is facilitated, by ensuring people use the same conventions and= rules.

co'o



Le 20 juillet 2017 19:15:24 CEST, Pierre Abbat <ph...@bezitopo.org&= gt; a =C3=A9crit :
>On Thursday, July 13, 2017 6:58:33 AM EDT suke...@gmail.com wrote:
>> Great job.
>>=20
>> But I guess this is only the beginning. Standard OS inputs met= hods
>should
>> have proper dictionaries, and I wish that dictionaries spread = out
>too. It's
>> already a pain having a proper spelling / grammar checking for
>widespread
>> OSes (Linux, Windows, Android, iOS...) in my mother's tong= ue language
>(*),
>> so I guess it would be much more difficult for Lojban.
>
>Grammar checking can be done algorithmically, but since the languag= e is
>fairly=20
>young and people are still making up lots of words, a spell checker
>would be=20
>difficult. However, there is no inflection of open classes in Lojba= n,
>so there=20
>cannot be arguments like "mosquitoes/mosquitos".
>
>> (*) It's been 27 years that a reform of French orthography= has been
>> official. However, Android still uses the old one (AFAIK), and
>Windows let
>> you choose the one you want in a deep buried option (which def= ault to
>> "old").
>
>I prefer the new way of writing numbers because it makes clear in
>writing the=20
>distinction between e.g. 52/1100 and 50/2100, and I like "cig= =C3=BCe, aig=C3=BCe,
>et=20
>ambig=C3=BCe" better than "cigu=C3=AB, aigu=C3=AB, et amb= igu=C3=AB". But some words just
>look=20
>wrong without their circumflex. i to la'o fy. cig=C3=BCe .fy. c= u vindu
>rulsantyspa=20
>.i la'o fy. aig=C3=BCe .fy. cu kinli .i la'o fy. ambig=C3= =BCe .fy. cu smuvrici
>
>mu'omi'e .piier.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsub= scribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http= s://groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit http= s://groups.google.com/d/optout.
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