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Sun, 5 Nov 2017 18:23:29 +0000 From: Thomas Porter To: "lojban@googlegroups.com" Subject: Re: [lojban] CLL and modern Lojban Thread-Topic: [lojban] CLL and modern Lojban Thread-Index: AQHTVh0WqKcWxIKWvEiVhsAG6HF89qMFwseAgABUh+c= Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2017 18:23:28 +0000 Message-ID: References: , In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-incomingtopheadermarker: OriginalChecksum:4190DC01210504EDC98B90B4C95CA3F20FEA21216A1E4018DE1510B7F1BF5CBF;UpperCasedChecksum:4C7D8A197232BFEF8C0A56B6E7FF266B72ECECCBF75D0B802D0430AF3986C46F;SizeAsReceived:7067;Count:46 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-tmn: [IU+emJ372FsPZMmRbwUcwixD2tvsBn4+] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1;SN1NAM02HT140;6:oIgpMk+p2VsQQ8tHGuiMGFZ3/ax1ex5AAvl7UAi8HQ8qs1y3um6kVPgL61pQydZRowkoQCOppMrz60Zfq9K4+wkDF/sYBUW3hi+iheg+Jng2phTjhj/zgWb7taI8SsZAFfdWkJPS1HwhMCSgjoRV/mjmuaKl6XTmvy8KuN3n8D5yB7v1E+0eza9F5SOVH8Y7LgxcCLvVh0H9VGk3QmI8158ntAxvRwvf2R20rRe5wENZkXCIhZSoULt7j9DFNM50Gv4aBobYCfNctKGvua96vqgVQ3QEc29cjEW5auUAhUGPbIw7sWB2qsiTBX2jnr23aRICH2lSjqDkkrIdXUxM6DY7HFwPmbqlYq+imjVTHlA=;5:rFcfYBsH6LWBAGV0/RLbnxjtKwiPaHk3bOKtRQU+VNNV67KwJp8vVveJ6U1ciXfdj/GE+Su4TusVLmpZ/OXsF7xXs2S2cXAFVFHueVcEVGisBk7nEBU9eg6iF9Fio/mzpzHg+eUOqdk5U4HeCad5vpaDuPbXn5Ey2b7zJyG7s1Q=;24:YIbjrAGggMfGN1wBtylL6lQPf4HvK9t9wc/nF0IXb4amGnnWXv88mlg4VyTLS/F0staRULdAlaF9NGgxbpi5DlVRjEyPphaJt3KEXGjJvOg=;7:Pi5qBO0Pca7McujvRnAM72EHdZV/5S2hH4A1yHl9lbKAKVN4Zeo/KpbXmf4PncgflkpdAAB6yOzXJ0A/2pq+LNfL+4Is0nj9WfbTt9IWdMbHaeHtGBPGX2RG/ZLrXB0MHN3ANCQq/CxQesOomCdRY1od5DTBt+6AgcrR/02OYmVsLqIvbCsweyxcgGuhPL+Z+egVs7lOJpUOZFKdyzJ02LVqdaLdE91Kz6UG77L9gwaUU0M5avDsrqZmcDeSb5+G x-incomingheadercount: 46 x-eopattributedmessage: 0 x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: dd2dd21f-3fd2-4c43-a735-08d5247a5014 x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:;BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:(22001)(201702061074)(5061506573)(5061507331)(1603103135)(2017031320274)(2017031324274)(2017031323274)(2017031322404)(1603101448)(1601125374)(1701031045);SRVR:SN1NAM02HT140; x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: SN1NAM02HT140: x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:(100000700101)(100105000095)(100000701101)(100105300095)(100000702101)(100105100095)(444000031);SRVR:SN1NAM02HT140;BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:(100000800101)(100110000095)(100000801101)(100110300095)(100000802101)(100110100095)(100000803101)(100110400095)(100000804101)(100110200095)(100000805101)(100110500095);SRVR:SN1NAM02HT140; x-forefront-prvs: 04825EA361 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM;SFS:(7070007)(98901004);DIR:OUT;SFP:1901;SCL:1;SRVR:SN1NAM02HT140;H:BLUPR10MB0482.namprd10.prod.outlook.com;FPR:;SPF:None;LANG:; spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_BLUPR10MB04821652B285375736C0E5ADD2530BLUPR10MB0482namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: hotmail.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: dd2dd21f-3fd2-4c43-a735-08d5247a5014 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 05 Nov 2017 18:23:28.9996 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Internet X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 84df9e7f-e9f6-40af-b435-aaaaaaaaaaaa X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SN1NAM02HT140 X-Original-Sender: osiris_hades_deathland@hotmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@hotmail.com header.s=selector1 header.b=ezass/2Z; spf=pass (google.com: domain of osiris_hades_deathland@hotmail.com designates 40.92.3.95 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=osiris_hades_deathland@hotmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=hotmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Spam-Checked-In-Group: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.8 X-Spam_score_int: -7 X-Spam_bar: / --_000_BLUPR10MB04821652B285375736C0E5ADD2530BLUPR10MB0482namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >What is clear, however, is that people don't want to use CLL Lojban (desp= ite the fact >that it is still the most thoroughly documented version). If you learn a b= it more about Lojban and >get familiar with its details, you will most like= ly begin to understand why. I am one of the most vocal proponents of CLL-only Lojban, but the problem i= s that the documentation is poorly organized and poorly explained. After, w= hat?, a decade, the Complete Lojban Language still has not had the full Err= ata approved for publication, so new learners are forced to either navigate= outdated websites for complete information or to learn instead a Lojban-id= o. On top of that, official leadership and activity in the community is lackin= g. It is nearly impossible to have one's opinion acknowledged unless you ar= e in one of the small and inaccessible cliques that seem to be the source o= f the off-shoot dialects. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --_000_BLUPR10MB04821652B285375736C0E5ADD2530BLUPR10MB0482namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 >What is clear, however, is that people don't want to use CL= L Lojban (despite the fact 

>that it is still the most thoroughly documente= d version). If you learn a bit more about Lojban and >get familiar with = its details, you will most likely begin to understand why.

I am one of the most vocal proponents of CLL-only Lojban, but the problem i= s that the documentation is poorly organized and poorly explained. After, w= hat?, a decade, the Complete Lojban Language still has not had the full Err= ata approved for publication, so new learners are forced to either navigate outdated websites for complete = information or to learn instead a Lojban-ido.

On top of that, official leadership and activity i= n the community is lacking. It is nearly impossible to have one's opinion a= cknowledged unless you are in one of the small and inaccessible cliques tha= t seem to be the source of the off-shoot dialects.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsub= scribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http= s://groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit http= s://groups.google.com/d/optout.
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