Received: from mail-ua0-f190.google.com ([209.85.217.190]:56428) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1eBhew-0005Ra-5m for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Mon, 06 Nov 2017 05:41:53 -0800 Received: by mail-ua0-f190.google.com with SMTP id d44sf6473081uai.15 for ; Mon, 06 Nov 2017 05:41:50 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20161025; h=sender:date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject :mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe; bh=h9o903wVThGS3x93Buy0ZO1ojtFXZqvK8wffGohFEjY=; b=ZomwiEqp5N3rXuuemTMyomjC6JucAT1/2utvCr/X8F0sJ8ZrDUe7mXTgP4pRaWd7uc BjYvXWbr93KOk6MMd5pzkIIEz5SKFwZsJqJ2j1Vbac4t7CX+UoGiEiQ7AvQoVSZrIrfR fcRnOrOr0uBfXLL14NhyXYmDNt4l3Clua6F/L/9PL93CLhvtCkuzoK62VmzLoRk8t/0E Bu/hWyreA3al2kcdN9CiHcgDR6Zi5J+zpuQkddOJEu3kUnJ0bdhB2g7m0bM8orW5BeqZ YecPbAed1eVqNhOTNbdQKwcucQVXWnVUl6TTHv6tKMWUKUQbTonxkTedamLxC3HSbwp1 XSVw== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=h9o903wVThGS3x93Buy0ZO1ojtFXZqvK8wffGohFEjY=; b=lXuniNa+d9LrpSw57CJWZglZAY6bPC/UHl/t6sXalXnajMAvpONF8UoWqRM8PgTsPi QvxslubcLHw18QVE/0hitrVpU8u1hSVLcle1czGhudVDF7AZd3CHXdR8Hn9ydx2yaTqe MgKJS980dTqaubQ5cX115gXzGQqaSqemGQ6q1c6knacH97aXP5+s9kDvDnC6LmSxp3QF U97M7NwmX98hhsBmi2KNi8/kNXU6hMe0ASBZIZkHY2+tNJcDsq2gAAZym2dHewiIcpyQ dZN5q8fQpdQsb40BS3jWY6rhUqGNREbDgf8Gguz8eOPJwAw5vqFS7lAXq5rz6fBR1YG0 5sbg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=sender:x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to :references:subject:mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post :list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=h9o903wVThGS3x93Buy0ZO1ojtFXZqvK8wffGohFEjY=; b=GTLLAR+mN/u93RwFRM7vuxoUPIewhboHiISi1IMcVuZZwnrZ1ILLrMTg2mABCX5RNx UmUwil3wCoy56+11wa1skygE5ENQfsZ4A85CpwJxgTr4C6Tmxl6mwQKVxgLCtnnLU4yC D18hwCovPBa8HCM99IarIxvjCkezBCgYvPZZcAGKIps8eSCJIE5GDvrsrzBZOgaBMfXh L4AMCEv2m6Z5B2+VwYlRWtxavk8ghH23uMpH/2mSEnRnRgsrQK6VZqef6gRH6AtDsWIV GlFsgMiLZzN8CjJf7FwDRZMx+8kcElpeH+u2+o5igB7KbCKtVSwReiqO5HiM3kTlxfAy v4fg== Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX7rb+sUp4lJf29hRkmjoM6TGhpqOh9GCMcP1bvFi00ZSqJeSrRm HO9VAgF9a6ep5tZf5Cu2Qg4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABhQp+TSoCCqCTm9ZdNCF6oNam8SnI8RjTr2beSEWZJJqVpeXIWGZK3cvEZuOgvRNWLWA1VVb0e0eA== X-Received: by 10.31.189.202 with SMTP id n193mr1301098vkf.5.1509975703888; Mon, 06 Nov 2017 05:41:43 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.176.27.91 with SMTP id n27ls3818216uai.5.gmail; Mon, 06 Nov 2017 05:41:43 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.31.168.133 with SMTP id r127mr1307334vke.8.1509975703333; Mon, 06 Nov 2017 05:41:43 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2017 05:41:42 -0800 (PST) From: guskant To: lojban Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <2902921f-abf0-4482-b651-ad78066ec8d5@googlegroups.com> References: <78156dc5-1fb3-4e9d-992c-a8f30facc4fd@googlegroups.com> <2902921f-abf0-4482-b651-ad78066ec8d5@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: CLL and modern Lojban MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_12543_1576131995.1509975702917" X-Original-Sender: gusni.kantu@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Spam-Checked-In-Group: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.3 X-Spam_score_int: -12 X-Spam_bar: - ------=_Part_12543_1576131995.1509975702917 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_12544_1665038442.1509975702918" ------=_Part_12544_1665038442.1509975702918 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Le lundi 6 novembre 2017 09:32:10 UTC, Benoit Neil a =C3=A9crit : > > doi la .aionys. > > .i ki'e u'ucru'e mi punai djuno fe la .byfy. > I must say I did not read enough through the various pages to reach that= =20 > info. > > Anyway, if you say the BPFK works as I described, then I feel it's good= =20 > news. However: > > - From afar, CLL seems a bit "stuck" at 1.1. Am I right? Do you think= =20 > there would be some 1.x before 2.0 (ie. minor updates)? > =20 > You will find issues for CLL 1.2 here: https://github.com/lojban/cll/milestone/12 The issues were already discussed by past lojbanists, and Cirko worked on= =20 introducing them into the next version of CLL. Gleki asked BPFK members for= =20 approval of them, and no one responded: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/bpfk-list/jqVDF5z9LqA I, as a member of BPFK, am responsible for approving them, but I did not=20 have enough time for that. Even if I have time for that, I can't imagine=20 that I can approve any English texts written by an native English speaker= =20 because I'm very poor at English. You can freely approve them even if you are not a member of BPFK. If you=20 want to do it as a member of BPFK, just post a message in Lojban to=20 "bpfk-list" Google Group at the URL above, saying that you want to be a=20 member, and you will be admitted. > - As I said on #ckule (IRC), it might be a good idea to write on the= =20 > front page the version of the CLL and its release date ;-) > =20 > I agree. =20 > > - Are some "betas" / "working branches" available (or will be=20 > available), so that people get a chance to have a look at before the= =20 > official release? > - Do you have in mind any plausible releases dates? I'm not asking for= =20 > a contractual thing, of course! Just to have a vague idea in mind. > > You should find many branches at the github repository above. I have never= =20 contributed to the repository for some reasons: - the repository is governed by "the Lojban Coders' Group". I regard it as= =20 a kind of unofficial fans' group. Although the Group owns many official or= =20 pre-official contents, the owner(s) and the contributors are not equal to= =20 the members of BPFK or LLG. I am a member of BPFK and LLG, and I have never= =20 invited as a collaborator or an owner of the group. I once made a small=20 pull request to another repository of the group, but it was ignored for=20 almost one year. - I made some efforts on bpfk-list to remove grammatical difficulties or=20 important logical defects, but we had always a stubborn defender of the=20 current state. You can find such discussions with no conclusion in the=20 bpfk-list Google Group above. Consequently, I have lost hope in updating=20 CLL, and shifted myself to create a large personal commentary on the whole= =20 CLL ver.1.1. =20 > Aside from that, and from my novice point of view, it seems that forks do= =20 > exist and seem significant. Isn't it a signal, asking for more updates in= =20 > the official CLL? Or do you feel that *some* people forking are simply=20 > impatient having their proposals integrated? What is your point of view? > > la .sykyndyr. > > .i mi kamjunmre mi fi la .lojban. me'a lu .abu. pa li'u le ropno bangu bo= =20 > manri=20 > > lo'ai fi sa'ai fu le'ai ie pei=20 i ji'a e'u lo'ai me'a lu .abu. pa li'u sa'ai li .abu pi'e pa le'ai ie pei =20 > .i ganai la .lojban. pe mi toldra gi e'o o'anai ko dragau > (I self-evaluate my Lojban level as being less than A1, as for the CEFR= =20 > .=20 > Please correct my Lojban if I'm wrong!) > i na'i ma'i mi na'e toldra i po'o .au sajgau do lo xauzma be fi mi mi'e la guskant --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. ------=_Part_12544_1665038442.1509975702918 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Le lundi 6 novembre 2017 09:32:10 UTC, Benoit Neil= a =C3=A9crit=C2=A0:
doi la .aionys.

.i ki'e u'uc= ru'e mi punai djuno fe la .byfy.
I must say I did not read en= ough through the various pages to reach that info.

Anyway, if you say the BPFK works as I described, then I feel it's goo= d news. However:
  • From afar, CLL seems a bit "stuck&q= uot; at 1.1. Am I right? Do you think there would be some 1.x before 2.0 (i= e. minor updates)?


You will find issues for CLL 1.2 here:

=
https://github.com/lojban/cll/milestone/12

<= div>The issues were already discussed by past lojbanists, and Cirko worked = on introducing them into the next version of CLL. Gleki asked BPFK members = for approval of them, and no one responded:

https:= //groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/bpfk-list/jqVDF5z9LqA

I, as a member of BPFK, am responsible for approving them, but I did = not have enough time for that. Even if I have time for that, I can't im= agine that I can approve any English texts written by an native English spe= aker because I'm very poor at English.

You can= freely approve them even if you are not a member of BPFK. If you want to d= o it as a member of BPFK, just post a message in Lojban to "bpfk-list&= quot; Google Group at the URL above, saying that you want to be a member, a= nd you will be admitted.


    • As I = said on #ckule (IRC), it might be a good idea to write on the front page th= e version of the CLL and its release date ;-)


I agree.

<= div>=C2=A0
  • Are some "betas" / "working branches" a= vailable (or will be available), so that people get a chance to have a look= at before the official release?
  • Do you have in mind any plausi= ble releases dates? I'm not asking for a contractual thing, of course! = Just to have a vague idea in mind.
<= br>

You should find many branches at the github re= pository above. I have never contributed to the repository for some reasons= :

- the repository is governed by "the Lojban= Coders' Group". I regard it as a kind of unofficial fans' gro= up. Although the Group owns many official or pre-official contents, the own= er(s) and the contributors are not equal to the members of BPFK or LLG. I a= m a member of BPFK and LLG, and I have never invited as a collaborator or a= n owner of the group. I once made a small pull request to another repositor= y of the group, but it was ignored for almost one year.

- I made some efforts on bpfk-list to remove grammatical difficulties= or important logical defects, but we had always a stubborn defender of the= current state. You can find such discussions with no conclusion in the bpf= k-list Google Group above. Consequently, I have lost hope in updating CLL, = and shifted myself to create a large personal commentary on the whole CLL v= er.1.1.


=C2=A0
Aside from that, and fr= om my novice point of view, it seems that forks do exist and seem significa= nt. Isn't it a signal, asking for more updates in the official CLL? Or = do you feel that some people forking are simply impatient having the= ir proposals integrated? What is your point of view?

la .sykyndyr.

.i mi kamjunmre m= i fi la .lojban. me'a lu .abu. pa li'u le ropno b= angu bo manri


lo'ai fi sa'ai fu le'ai ie pei=C2=A0
i j= i'a e'u lo'ai me'a lu .abu. pa li'u sa'ai li .abu p= i'e pa le'ai ie pei

=C2=A0
.i gana= i la .lojban. pe mi toldra gi e'o o'anai ko dragau
(I sel= f-evaluate my Lojban level as being less than A1, as for th= e CEFR. Please correct my Lojban if I'm wrong!)


i na'i ma'i mi na'= ;e toldra i po'o .au sajgau do lo xauzma be fi mi

<= div>mi'e la guskant



<= /div>

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsub= scribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http= s://groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit http= s://groups.google.com/d/optout.
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