Received: from mail-ua0-f185.google.com ([209.85.217.185]:50922) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1eBzjB-0001ql-Mx for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Tue, 07 Nov 2017 00:59:31 -0800 Received: by mail-ua0-f185.google.com with SMTP id u13sf7921696uaf.9 for ; Tue, 07 Nov 2017 00:59:25 -0800 (PST) ARC-Seal: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; t=1510045159; cv=pass; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; b=iPCThqf+wFSTQki4zZ7XAIvBCpm2YOQhcFAIhtBShdXDvaLtGdanY3oh4w7+zIst8z eLRFls+O6cUAwUpBvK9Xf24jz7t+HBkKjWgJvSfDoyZDBMjfjbbjWsxzZVdy8IgWhlXV b+pVeFu52rP4jE7SxkMW53I3MIDQUpV7YY/4Mn7cUeFFt3suAMX/UTQJQ7p7IGmOyYGY jWPLDmw+FSp/4kRCIuvZ/dwTVtySfXh8o7iZrplJBLKcZcKODKownUSrrXuwHvtNmSY8 GOHHda96lK069bbjhg+47tJccOYXnptg/HROJic8/DuzqtnFEJQ+BUGLKyMtm/68PnLJ kQ1w== ARC-Message-Signature: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:reply-to:to:subject:message-id:date :from:references:in-reply-to:mime-version:arc-authentication-results :arc-message-signature:sender:dkim-signature:dkim-signature :arc-authentication-results; bh=GQC5hWPyAHizO1htoMR2nWg0BRsN1aRfYUs1oghMMSk=; b=d5meUmS9hxUScD3uIytP46WyXCyeNnpS+Yl7QBbL2GvxybPb51MMMpqMEKucrIGdbX f7fkf69czgZ3FsSnQGj50JqbFkcjjyT5swOf1WepWTqnm+X/NFnU4QFCM77n5s11D1vG jOW0/++Wr84lzyLZbq1mnmrWNCJpNkD01hn59y+fdEsscH4R5delNgW9cceX4COSzqc6 mH7IvDcV1ljgyMj7Jgo19H2/Lopn11lKXVHEI6nkrU0HCMjl+0bStLQwSZz0ThLZrW3a l/eRP2Lb80ZTsBdhfcZ7o/9vv4VGcWLAV/sZaOt62NaMJFrjET46jH4Dggrew8S+No3F Mumw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=2; gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=MDEgkJel; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lytlesw@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400e:c05::236 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=lytlesw@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20161025; h=sender:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help :list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=GQC5hWPyAHizO1htoMR2nWg0BRsN1aRfYUs1oghMMSk=; b=P73kzs/PqE88AN8QwARTl7nEU3UFLNRexwxBGqPpJMwzE+FnyNkBEqaPwkCExpzhr7 3FMvwxHNWucHiWk9xO0m1RSC0zAR8tGxT5FaCGfn6jzd8so6YVRabwB8lPlczvVCSAoX 9SU5cI5MWkjOeJhcaxHX5J1UvCRoNBlJ4s706PO5y6O5+lt/KSMP/nEUrL0AIEbyr3V+ htmoRbS2QIz7Di5n/wC81ymtHqqWqf7V1OeX1Ka6dOBv3klrbYMJDA6+0XWpYvsnEuTM pmucCVX/5kNe2RNpw6FkwdRuiHL34RAwEQPZMQ5cJB94Pl0C39mCaDUYfhBNNsD9tOXF DSoQ== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=GQC5hWPyAHizO1htoMR2nWg0BRsN1aRfYUs1oghMMSk=; b=r69dvXO96v7b+GTv9EE1EHm5771kAqT9uN2wNsLNgRz2/FoyOX1VtfUN34Gt0ezc6z DuBVezOyMifJ8ll45thngG1Lb1+NRdnm/cXdKC8taTV6xKTwhk37rYUQiKFzBo4gnjiR 6EyhqTkcs5hKrUCOhkTb5orH/gN0jECz8PwttayFpp+twjjj1GiS6Pcfza4Oi9Pr2cmz aEP1TXcYnBAAa8xan1opaPj39+88JB1kvpo705VTPgrdeUoH0CvHfMiLlPrMUypL++fx bHRByas0MYe4GgCnkAE+RPooo5BX3rEVsYLZF574ZdeJ5km65MIH9SEPGHU74s9b0FYG h+Mg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=sender:x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=GQC5hWPyAHizO1htoMR2nWg0BRsN1aRfYUs1oghMMSk=; b=qWr+0vzZhwpSx1FxtKn4cTo2gVtY7zWtRjJfq5k4YosjjbtHYfb5+IzOjd5VVbZfNP Ebn0i9KHoPdhHXo+37u+rhUI13LUGuwaIjngxcNmhGRsWakUUZdpMgze91JRzYil72Yi w4OYHPy+R2R31vCqVJ7Q6NKZ8jmIKR/JmUe8KzzUS+V3SxTTwO+QbzKa2+5Jxhv+3bvt FtTx42dx0gAv+ZeCJGzXtprrDoFLX3Ax48AuhxzA5Cs9SM5qTkcv2naScOEE0sFxjJi+ DVt3/NUmeV1Q5I0cR0rrabvpR/kS0KNEGXzaJJ5cMVfSleZwK6HepegSRsQFTWZnNKgR 60UQ== Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaVsHpADTvPv5RNlCrcFmMOqYCALENjbvZbsBeoAZ2UqzT2DdmGl wgLEb2HuMisEiBitqluQb4w= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABhQp+SrIk66w1VW6U4kT+icYxi3xdBoJCrAu4dA7Bc7ModJX9NaTpZ1guUdjaM2hYwfQV75Nzm7CA== X-Received: by 10.31.153.21 with SMTP id b21mr1514490vke.13.1510045159397; Tue, 07 Nov 2017 00:59:19 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.176.72.41 with SMTP id b38ls4506642uad.2.gmail; Tue, 07 Nov 2017 00:59:18 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.31.3.32 with SMTP id 32mr8979320vkd.94.1510045158923; Tue, 07 Nov 2017 00:59:18 -0800 (PST) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1510045158; cv=none; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; b=ekbmtijYF4KTsUslo3lcoy/ud/Bt4M7F9uCIWm/wBNZYTc81yho0CWYOcPEP4dwR68 zu8DrhUKnlNDhs2QJl64ShmHoMIZ0A2T+xGyHsnd3UGKtUqX3SSmQWZRv7MByWIik+MR 3lbumjaBtG0hHyJR35nIsfgt/DRFdmFk3cMRHgMTvWQq5MrycKekQAupqxqUafbeeEq5 NZIJxZHyK9hRwRXofbvIURBx3Iny7+rx3+r9unJeMfj1gKQvZOcBZseC9Vpt/CAuZ4r+ bu6nomeWQVKyF7ynoF2WkrZJ6PqnJtw+sYK0I6ppKLDWAuTpEHQNVaBP4DW7HvJ3wMa3 m7ZA== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:references:in-reply-to:mime-version :dkim-signature:arc-authentication-results; bh=LzeI/0CffRNFxwXVz3fupZCGXmgwmFTshUcDf1o2DuY=; b=l/C1BHGLXKBpuZc6/cStAWtaJztpjC6i/yzp3R/JaF6XrbZGlUV6lmmVUVkoJDzHX/ IM09YoebC/QIyRK4mGkdNvRCR9j8Cqzzua8JwqzXW+WtezhP543VhQklCn9v0SqZuhhd 3bsJwx7RHEMW/ssiBlZtmzKilM5df7Jt5TxdatYetcdQEP+K4OXtPlzpSg/gmCEpTX+b +JXir7zf7EmWdQ6h1lyKuS9E27s4PEKLNilnOaNP25uswSDSqmY98ruBaA6jncVXgEbV zufkGvXRB0TOlPkDI5nHDYmc4msIStC72oexF/b1IXz5KhgdoTCmFAA2JPRr3sj0iyIQ A6Ow== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=MDEgkJel; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lytlesw@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400e:c05::236 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=lytlesw@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Received: from mail-pg0-x236.google.com (mail-pg0-x236.google.com. [2607:f8b0:400e:c05::236]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id t48si36733uad.5.2017.11.07.00.59.18 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 07 Nov 2017 00:59:18 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lytlesw@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400e:c05::236 as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:400e:c05::236; Received: by mail-pg0-x236.google.com with SMTP id s2so10487778pge.10 for ; Tue, 07 Nov 2017 00:59:18 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.99.97.67 with SMTP id v64mr17797415pgb.89.1510045158402; Tue, 07 Nov 2017 00:59:18 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.100.179.13 with HTTP; Tue, 7 Nov 2017 00:58:47 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <03cb7058-3183-4b01-96f6-6a58ea2286e4@googlegroups.com> <3a342986-92d1-47e1-a9fe-5f2acb7b3942@googlegroups.com> From: MorphemeAddict Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2017 02:58:47 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: CLL and modern Lojban To: lojban@googlegroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c0cae3842f0ca055d60c9b6" X-Original-Sender: lytlesw@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=MDEgkJel; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lytlesw@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400e:c05::236 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=lytlesw@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Spam-Checked-In-Group: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.3 X-Spam_score_int: -12 X-Spam_bar: - --94eb2c0cae3842f0ca055d60c9b6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable sykynder: You mention re-integrating forks back into the core language. How do you change something and then make it the same as it was before? And why would you want to? stevo Virus-free. www.avast.com <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> On Tue, Nov 7, 2017 at 2:38 AM, wrote: > @Gleki: What you wrote is roughly what as I, as a rookie, found: the CLL > is what seems most complete. This is also why I asked for other reference= s > (and still asking!). As I said, I'm not against forking. I feel like this > is not an issue, as long as people are willing to try reintegrate their > work to the core language. But this requires compromise & accommodation o= n > both sides, and evaluating if a reintegration is worth the job is already= a > job. And even if many Lojbanists are enthusiasts, they all need money to > live and cannot work for free indefinitely. > > I just don't want to spend time learning things if they would be thrown > away in a few months/years, or if this dilutes a fragile project. > > la .sykyndyr. > > > Le lundi 6 novembre 2017 16:01:00 UTC+1, Gleki Arxokuna a =C3=A9crit : >> >> As you can see this is unlikely to happen since people like to fork but.= .. >> >> you have CLL. It contains all the rules needed and makes the language >> functional. >> >> If you read it all and say "I want to speak something else " that's okay= . >> For now there is no document like this book in the amount of information >> introduced for a speakable logical language. >> >> Lojban is not in someone's head. It's been put on paper. >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --94eb2c0cae3842f0ca055d60c9b6 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
sykynder: You mention re-integrating forks back into the cor= e language. How do you change something and then make it the same as it was= before? And why would you want to?=C2=A0
=C2=A0
stevo

3D"" Virus-free. www.avast.com

On Tue, Nov 7, 2017 at 2:38 AM, <sukender1@gmail.com> wr= ote:
@Gleki: What y= ou wrote is roughly what as I, as a rookie, found: the CLL is what seems mo= st complete. This is also why I asked for other references (and still askin= g!). As I said, I'm not against forking. I feel like this is not an iss= ue, as long as people are willing to try reintegrate their work to the core= language. But this requires compromise & accommodation on both sides, = and evaluating if a reintegration is worth the job is already a job. And ev= en if many Lojbanists are enthusiasts, they all need money to live and cann= ot work for free indefinitely.

I just don't wa= nt to spend time learning things if they would be thrown away in a few mont= hs/years, or if this dilutes a fragile project.

la .sykyndyr.


Le lundi 6 novembr= e 2017 16:01:00 UTC+1, Gleki Arxokuna a =C3=A9crit=C2=A0:
As you can see this is unlikely to happen since= people like to fork but...

you have CLL. It conta= ins all the rules needed and makes the language functional.

<= /div>
If you read it all and say "I want to speak something else &= quot; that's okay. For now there is no document like this book in the a= mount of information introduced for a speakable logical language.

Lojban is not in someone's head. It's been put on p= aper.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsub= scribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http= s://groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit http= s://groups.google.com/d/optout.
--94eb2c0cae3842f0ca055d60c9b6--