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From: And Rosta <and.rosta@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2017 15:35:22 +0000
Message-ID: <CACf3dPnmCuGXQtxQOOrP9T9pDthhthx3rnoCdaFoai+fM8M6Wg@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: CLL and modern Lojban
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On 7 November 2017 at 13:49, Timothy Lawrence <
timothy.lawrence@connect.qut.edu.au> wrote:

> *"You can learn the language described here with assurance that it will
> not be subject to further fiddling by language-meisters."*
> - Complete Lojban Language http://lojban.github.io/cll/1/2/
>
> I only use CLL Lojban. I believe that an unambiguous language needs to
> have a central, singular version to stay unambiguous.
>

We have long known that CLL Lojban is not logically unambiguous, is not
internally consistent, is not complete, and especially cannot be completed
in a coherent way that is consistent with CLL. To the best of my knowledge,
nobody who understands and cares about logic and consistency has ever
maintained that CLL Lojban is viable. However, there are people who hold
that fidelity to CLL -- and to a standard dialect that emerges
spontaneously from CLL-faithful usage -- is of paramount importance,
outweighing considerations of logic and consistency. The community has
always been polarized between these two positions; all that has changed is
that the former group has grown at the expense of the latter, as the
requisite understanding of the logical issues has spread.

--And.

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 7=
 November 2017 at 13:49, Timothy Lawrence <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:timothy.lawrence@connect.qut.edu.au" target=3D"_blank">timothy.lawre=
nce@connect.qut.edu.au</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_=
quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1=
ex">


<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div id=3D"m_2006538578273824123divtagdefaultwrapper" style=3D"font-size:10=
pt;color:#000000;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif" dir=3D"ltr">
<div><i>&quot;You can learn the language described here with assurance that=
 it will not be subject to further fiddling by language-meisters.&quot;</i>=
<br>
- Complete Lojban Language <a id=3D"m_2006538578273824123LPlnk252822" href=
=3D"http://lojban.github.io/cll/1/2/" class=3D"m_2006538578273824123OWAAuto=
Link" target=3D"_blank">
http://lojban.github.io/cll/1/<wbr>2/</a> <br>
<br>
I only use CLL Lojban. I believe that an unambiguous language needs to have=
 a central, singular version to stay unambiguous.<br></div></div></div></bl=
ockquote><div><br></div><div>We have long known that CLL Lojban is not logi=
cally unambiguous, is not internally consistent, is not complete, and espec=
ially cannot be completed in a coherent way that is consistent with CLL. To=
 the best of my knowledge, nobody who understands and cares about logic and=
 consistency has ever maintained that CLL Lojban is viable. However, there =
are people who hold that fidelity to CLL -- and to a standard dialect that =
emerges spontaneously from CLL-faithful usage -- is of paramount importance=
, outweighing considerations of logic and consistency. The community has al=
ways been polarized between these two positions; all that has changed is th=
at the former group has grown at the expense of the latter, as the requisit=
e understanding of the logical issues has spread.</div><div><br></div><div>=
--And.</div></div></div></div>

<p></p>

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