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From: Robert Slaughter <robert.s.slaughter@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2017 16:09:02 -0500
Message-ID: <CAJj_f=UjiwUcdxLMcNwryUpOis=vT9g88L+kGkVO_565yg4wOw@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: CLL and modern Lojban
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PC, the only update to le/lo that I am aware of is 'xorlo', written up
here: https://mw.lojban.org/papri/How_to_use_xorlo


----
Bob Slaughter
http://www.facebook.com/robert.s.slaughter
"The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled
by evil men." -- Plato
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do
nothing." -- Edmund Burke
"The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but
because of those who look on and do nothing." -- Albert Einstein
"Nothing emboldens the wicked so greatly as the lack of courage on the part
of the good." -- Pope Leo XIII, encyclical 'On Christians as Citizens'

On Tue, Nov 7, 2017 at 12:29 PM, 'John E Clifford' via lojban <
lojban@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> A comment in a recent note suggests that folks have been diddling with
> {le} and {lo} yet again (still?).  As someone who devoted several pounds =
of
> paper (virtual, of course) to that issue over the last 40 years, I am
> curious to new hat the latest turn is.  When last I looked, {le x} was a
> term  that arbitrarily designed a node with a pragmatic (but not
> necessarily semantic ) link to x.  {lo x} designated the salient node in
> the matrix generated by part-whole on the set of xs.  What are the new
> wrinkles?
> pycyn
>
>
> On Tuesday, November 7, 2017, 10:40:41 AM CST, guskant <
> gusni.kantu@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Le mardi 7 novembre 2017 08:49:56 UTC, Benoit Neil a =C3=A9crit :
>
> doi la .guskant.
>
> Thanks for the links. That seems interesting, but I just can't read big
> Lojban discussions: it took me days (yeah, from time to time, not
> continuously!) to read and understand 100% of this famous "la .teris."!
> My current level is one of the reasons why I'm absolutely not ready to
> enter any board or committee.
>
>
>
> BPFK decided in 2015 to talk in Lojban, but LLG meeting is still talked i=
n
> English. Some of LLG members are not fluent in Lojban. The LLG meeting is
> held on a private mailing list, and anyone can attend the meeting by
> subscribing to the list:
> http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members
> You can even request the membership of LLG voting member.
>
>
>
> Is there an HTML version somewhere so that everyone can access it without
> developer tools?
>
>
>
> HTML version of what?
> BPFK and LLG are held in mailing list, and Lojban Coders' Group is held o=
n
> Github. I don't find any other version of meeting minutes.
>
>
>
>
> ** Paralysis **
> So, according to what you say, BPFK is really paralyzed. When you want to
> rely on someone's work, well, (s)he might simply be overloaded with other
> tasks and may never answer. It seems that there are no "replacement"
> guys/gals: if one is not able to perform a task, whatever the reason, the=
n
> nobody can replace him/her. Do you think so too?
>
>
>
> Yes.
>
>
>
> It feels so dramatic to me that you've lost hope. It is exactly what I
> feared: anyone can do whatever, in whatever direction. That's freedom.
> That's not wrong in itself. But... nothing more? Ideas create "explosions=
"
> and there is no structure at all to make all of this collapse to somethin=
g
> better and organized?
>
>
>
> I made some critical remarks on the CLL Lojban, and someone agreed, but
> finally I did not receive enough reaction for including any ideas of them
> into the CLL:
>
> https://mw.lojban.org/papri/gadri:_an_unofficial_
> commentary_from_a_logical_point_of_view
> (written in 2014)
>
> https://mw.lojban.org/papri/BPFK_Section:_Complement_to_causation_sumtcit=
a
> (written in 2015)
>
> https://mw.lojban.org/papri/na_go'i
> (written in 2016)
>
>
>
>
> You told your efforts were blocked by some people. Were there discussions
> (I mean enough discussions)? Voting? Enough participants in voting? Enoug=
h
> time for the committee to work on proposals?
>
>    - If so, maybe there is something to do with structures (as said
>    above)?
>    - If not, maybe all committee members should accept the fact that
>    language will evolve?
>
>
>
>
> Some of the issues were discussed, I think enough, but not brought to
> voting. As for the others, discussion was stopped in midway. I think the
> problem is caused by the structure of the committee.
>
>
>
> ** Funds **
> As I just told to Gleki : "even if many Lojbanists are enthusiasts, they
> all need money to live and cannot work for free indefinitely".
> You know, some guy on the Facebook group (=D0=A1=D0=B5=D1=80=D0=B3=D0=B5=
=D0=B9 =D0=98=D0=BB=D1=8C=D0=B8=D0=BD=D1=81=D0=BA=D0=B8=D1=85) asked if
> "crypto-currency rewards" could be an idea for translations jobs. At firs=
t
> I thought this was not very useful, and surely complex to set up. However=
,
> I feel now that the idea behind this (money to encourage people working o=
n
> Lojban stuff) may be one of the "energy sources" that would change the
> game. Of course, this has to be very carefully handled! But we may imagin=
e
> something like periodic small fund raising (donations, crowdfunding, etc.=
)
> on one hand, and a system putting clear (and small) objectives and reward=
s
> on the other hand. I feel like the idea has to be enhanced and discussed.=
..
> But don't you think it is worth debating on this? This of course would be
> only some tools to help, and the current organizations would still be the=
re
> and help.
>
>
>
> At least in the current structure of committees, any ideas about rewards
> will be stuck. Rewards should belong to LLG's business, but the LLG meeti=
ng
> is completely died. My motions for rescuing official contents were always
> ignored. They were not even discussed. The main part of the meeting
> consists of roll call, voting for the board members, and voting for closi=
ng
> the meeting.
>
>
>
>
> ** Organizations **
> An by the way, this thread highlighted the fact that there are 3 "major"
> groups down there: LLG, GPFK, and the Coders Group. Even if history may
> explain why there are three, the current "freezing" status of all may be =
a
> signal for changing things. I don't know even 1% of what each did; but *F=
ROM
> AFAR*, it seems that all organizations share some common interests, and
> may perform better together. Of course, merging everyone into a single
> entity is surely fictional. But they may organize as "subsidiary
> companies", sharing a purely administrative section with some functional
> parts (ex: financial as for the previous topic, rule sets, etc.). Do you
> feel this would be technically possible? And would this be desirable and
> profitable?
>
>
>
> I guess those three groups worked like a parent company (LLG) and
> subsidiary companies (BPFK, Lojban Coders' Group) in the past. BPFK was
> created by LLG in order to complete technical documents. Lojban Coders'
> Group was created by voluntary IT engineers, among which there were membe=
rs
> of LLG or BPFK, maybe for creating various tools for learning Lojban.
>
> Currently, none of them work fine. LLG is died, BPFK is dying, Lojban
> Coders' Group is mixing official and unofficial contents without mentioni=
ng
> responsibility of the unofficial contents.
>
>
>
>
> I thought about this overnight (!) and specifically about one rule: as
> people discuss about language, is it wise to allow discussions to be in
> Lojban only? Maybe a common rule of requiring a (rough?) translation in
> another "reference" language would help. Of course, as there are plenty o=
f
> materials in English out there, it seems logical that this would be
> English, but that's not mandatory, I guess.
>
> You known, I'm willing to help but I can only help organizing stuff, and
> spreading the word. Not much more because of my too recent implication.
>
>
>
> I have no problem in discussing Lojban in Lojban. Discussion of Lojban in
> English continued until 2015, and it also worked fine. I personally profi=
t
> more from discussion in Lojban as Lojban exercises. I don't know what the
> other members of BPFK think about it.
>
> BPFK is currently dying, so it might be worth trying English discussion a=
s
> AED.
>
>
>
>
> ** [side note] **
> Thank you very much for helping me improving my skills.
>
>    - "li .abu pi'e pa" is just a great idea! I didn't know how to convert
>    the "A1, A2, B1, B2, C1, C2" levels, so I used a basic "translation". =
But
>    putting as if it was a number "A dot 1" of unspecified base is awesome=
!
>    - But what about the "less than"? Can I write "me'i li .abu pi'e pa"?
>
>
>
> I forgot taking your word {me'a}. It is a function word of part of speech
> BAI, and related to {mleca}. {me'a X} means therefore that X is less than
> something involved in the meaning of the statement.
>
> If you wanted to say "less than X" using a function word of BAI, {mau X}
> or {se me'a X} would be suitable.
>
> In my expression, it should be replaced by {me'i} just after {li}:
> li me'i .abu pi'e pa
>
>
>
>
>
>    -
>    - My bad about "fo" (and not "fi"): I was counting "fa" from x2
>    instead of x1, as for "se" (because there is no "x1 <-> x1" swapping
>    cmavo), so I had an offset of 1. I mixed up counting rules!
>    - Note : I thought "me'a..." was a sumti place, but parser told me
>       it's a modal. So I guess I cannot use it, or else "le ropno bangu b=
o manri"
>       would fall in m3 place (units) of "kamjunmre".
>    - Finally, your last sentence is too obscure for my level! What I
>    understand: "One cannot say `I'm never wrong`. I can only wish (???)".
>
>
>
> By my last sentence {i na'i ma'i mi na'e toldra i po'o .au sajgau do lo
> xauzma be fi mi}, I meant "well, from my point of view, you are not wrong=
.
> I only want to let you know something better according to me."
>
>
>
> ki'ecai
>
>
>
> (You may want to insert {do'u}, {i}, {mi'e} or any other words for
> separation here, otherwise you are thanking you.)
>
>
>
> la .sykyndyr.
>
>
>
> mu'o mi'e la guskant
>
>
> --
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>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">PC, the only update to le/lo that I am aware of is &#39;xo=
rlo&#39;, written up here:=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://mw.lojban.org/papri/How_=
to_use_xorlo">https://mw.lojban.org/papri/How_to_use_xorlo</a><div><br></di=
v></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br clear=3D"all"><div><div class=3D"gma=
il_signature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div=
 dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><br></div><div>----</di=
v><div>Bob Slaughter</div><div><a href=3D"http://www.facebook.com/robert.s.=
slaughter" target=3D"_blank">http://www.facebook.com/robert.s.slaughter</a>=
=C2=A0</div><div>&quot;The price good men pay for indifference to public af=
fairs is to be ruled by evil men.&quot; -- Plato</div><div>&quot;All that i=
s necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.&quot; -- E=
dmund Burke</div><div>&quot;The world is a dangerous place, not because of =
those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing.&quot; -=
- Albert Einstein</div><div>&quot;Nothing emboldens the wicked so greatly a=
s the lack of courage on the part of the good.&quot; -- Pope Leo XIII, ency=
clical &#39;On Christians as Citizens&#39;</div></div></div></div></div></d=
iv></div></div>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Nov 7, 2017 at 12:29 PM, &#39;John E=
 Clifford&#39; via lojban <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lojban@go=
oglegroups.com" target=3D"_blank">lojban@googlegroups.com</a>&gt;</span> wr=
ote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border=
-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div style=3D"font-family:Helve=
tica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><div></div>
            <div>A comment in a recent note suggests that folks have been d=
iddling with {le} and {lo} yet again (still?).=C2=A0 As someone who devoted=
 several pounds of paper (virtual, of course) to that issue over the last 4=
0 years, I am curious to new hat the latest turn is.=C2=A0 When last I look=
ed, {le x} was a term =C2=A0that arbitrarily designed a node with a pragmat=
ic (but not necessarily semantic ) link to x. =C2=A0{lo x} designated the s=
alient node in the matrix generated by part-whole on the set of xs.=C2=A0 W=
hat are the new wrinkles?</div><div>pycyn</div><div><div class=3D"h5"><div>=
<br></div><div><br></div>
           =20
            <div id=3D"m_-2436283441802202162yahoo_quoted_0669068107" class=
=3D"m_-2436283441802202162yahoo_quoted">
                <div style=3D"font-family:&#39;Helvetica Neue&#39;,Helvetic=
a,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a">
                   =20
                    <div>
                        On Tuesday, November 7, 2017, 10:40:41 AM CST, gusk=
ant &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gusni.kantu@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gusni.ka=
ntu@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:
                    </div>
                    <div><br></div>
                    <div><br></div>
                    <div><div id=3D"m_-2436283441802202162yiv8093058664"><d=
iv><div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">Le mardi 7 novemb=
re 2017 08:49:56 UTC, Benoit Neil a =C3=A9crit=C2=A0:<blockquote class=3D"m=
_-2436283441802202162yiv8093058664gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margin-lef=
t:0.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>=
doi la .guskant.</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>Thanks for the lin=
ks. That seems interesting, but I just can&#39;t read big Lojban discussion=
s: it took me days (yeah, from time to time, not continuously!) to read and=
 understand 100% of this famous &quot;la .teris.&quot;!</div><div>My curren=
t level is one of the reasons why I&#39;m absolutely not ready to enter any=
 board or committee.</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div></div></blockquote>=
<div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>BPFK decid=
ed in 2015 to talk in Lojban, but LLG meeting is still talked in English. S=
ome of LLG members are not fluent in Lojban. The LLG meeting is held on a p=
rivate mailing list, and anyone can attend the meeting by subscribing to th=
e list:</div><div><a href=3D"http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-me=
mbers" target=3D"_blank">http://mail.lojban.org/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/llg-m=
embers</a></div><div>You can even request the membership of LLG voting memb=
er.</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=
=3D"m_-2436283441802202162yiv8093058664gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margi=
n-left:0.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">=
<div></div><div>Is there an HTML version somewhere so that everyone can acc=
ess it without developer tools?</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div></div></=
blockquote><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div=
>HTML version of what?</div><div>BPFK and LLG are held in mailing list, and=
 Lojban Coders&#39; Group is held on Github. I don&#39;t find any other ver=
sion of meeting minutes.</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div><br clear=
=3D"none"></div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"m_-243628344180220216=
2yiv8093058664gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left:=
1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div></div><div><font siz=
e=3D"4"><b>* Paralysis *</b></font></div><div>So, according to what you say=
, BPFK is really paralyzed. When you want to rely on someone&#39;s work, we=
ll, (s)he might simply be overloaded with other tasks and may never answer.=
 It seems that there are no &quot;replacement&quot; guys/gals: if one is no=
t able to perform a task, whatever the reason, then nobody can replace him/=
her. Do you think so too?</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div></div></blockq=
uote><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>Yes.<=
/div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"m_=
-2436283441802202162yiv8093058664gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margin-left=
:0.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><=
/div><div>It feels so dramatic to me that you&#39;ve lost hope. It is exact=
ly what I feared: anyone can do whatever, in whatever direction. That&#39;s=
 freedom. That&#39;s not wrong in itself. But... nothing more? Ideas create=
 &quot;explosions&quot; and there is no structure at all to make all of thi=
s collapse to something better and organized?</div><div><br clear=3D"none">=
</div></div></blockquote><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div><br clear=3D"no=
ne"></div><div>I made some critical remarks on the CLL Lojban, and someone =
agreed, but finally I did not receive enough reaction for including any ide=
as of them into the CLL:</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div><a href=3D=
"https://mw.lojban.org/papri/gadri:_an_unofficial_commentary_from_a_logical=
_point_of_view" target=3D"_blank">https://mw.lojban.org/papri/<wbr>gadri:_a=
n_unofficial_<wbr>commentary_from_a_logical_<wbr>point_of_view</a></div><di=
v>(written in 2014)</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div><a href=3D"http=
s://mw.lojban.org/papri/BPFK_Section:_Complement_to_causation_sumtcita" tar=
get=3D"_blank">https://mw.lojban.org/papri/<wbr>BPFK_Section:_Complement_to=
_<wbr>causation_sumtcita</a></div><div>(written in 2015)</div><div><br clea=
r=3D"none"></div><div><a href=3D"https://mw.lojban.org/papri/na_go&#39;i" t=
arget=3D"_blank">https://mw.lojban.org/papri/<wbr>na_go&#39;i</a></div><div=
>(written in 2016)</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div><br clear=3D"non=
e"></div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"m_-2436283441802202162yiv809=
3058664gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left:1px #cc=
c solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div></div><div>You told your ef=
forts were blocked by some people. Were there discussions (I mean enough di=
scussions)? Voting? Enough participants in voting? Enough time for the comm=
ittee to work on proposals?</div><div><ul><li>If so, maybe there is somethi=
ng to do with structures (as said above)?<br clear=3D"none"></li><li>If not=
, maybe all committee members should accept the fact that language will evo=
lve?<br clear=3D"none"></li></ul></div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div></div>=
</blockquote><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><d=
iv>Some of the issues were discussed, I think enough, but not brought to vo=
ting. As for the others, discussion was stopped in midway. I think the prob=
lem is caused by the structure of the committee.=C2=A0</div><div><br clear=
=3D"none"></div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"m_-243628344180220216=
2yiv8093058664gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left:=
1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div></div><div><font siz=
e=3D"4"><b>* Funds *</b></font></div><div>As I just told to Gleki : &quot;e=
ven if many Lojbanists are enthusiasts, they all need money to live and can=
not work for free indefinitely&quot;.</div><div>You know, some guy on the F=
acebook group (=D0=A1=D0=B5=D1=80=D0=B3=D0=B5=D0=B9 =D0=98=D0=BB=D1=8C=D0=
=B8=D0=BD=D1=81=D0=BA=D0=B8=D1=85) asked if &quot;crypto-currency rewards&q=
uot; could be an idea for translations jobs. At first I thought this was no=
t very useful, and surely complex to set up. However, I feel now that the i=
dea behind this (money to encourage people working on Lojban stuff) may be =
one of the &quot;energy sources&quot; that would change the game. Of course=
, this has to be very carefully handled! But we may imagine something like =
periodic small fund raising (donations, crowdfunding, etc.) on one hand, an=
d a system putting clear (and small) objectives and rewards on the other ha=
nd. I feel like the idea has to be enhanced and discussed... But don&#39;t =
you think it is worth debating on this? This of course would be only some t=
ools to help, and the current organizations would still be there and help.<=
/div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div></div></blockquote><div><br clear=3D"non=
e"></div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>At least in the current structu=
re of committees, any ideas about rewards will be stuck. Rewards should bel=
ong to LLG&#39;s business, but the LLG meeting is completely died. My motio=
ns for rescuing official contents were always ignored. They were not even d=
iscussed. The main part of the meeting consists of roll call, voting for th=
e board members, and voting for closing the meeting.</div><div><br clear=3D=
"none"></div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote cla=
ss=3D"m_-2436283441802202162yiv8093058664gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;mar=
gin-left:0.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr=
"><div></div><div><font size=3D"4"><b>* Organizations *</b></font></div><di=
v>An by the way, this thread highlighted the fact that there are 3 &quot;ma=
jor&quot; groups down there: LLG, GPFK, and the Coders Group. Even if histo=
ry may explain why there are three, the current &quot;freezing&quot; status=
 of all may be a signal for changing things. I don&#39;t know even 1% of wh=
at each did; but <b><u>FROM AFAR</u></b>, it seems that all organizations s=
hare some common interests, and may perform better together. Of course, mer=
ging everyone into a single entity is surely fictional. But they may organi=
ze as &quot;subsidiary companies&quot;, sharing a purely administrative sec=
tion with some functional parts (ex: financial as for the previous topic, r=
ule sets, etc.). Do you feel this would be technically possible? And would =
this be desirable and profitable?</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div></div>=
</blockquote><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><d=
iv>I guess those three groups worked like a parent company (LLG) and subsid=
iary companies (BPFK, Lojban Coders&#39; Group) in the past. BPFK was creat=
ed by LLG in order to complete technical documents. Lojban Coders&#39; Grou=
p was created by voluntary IT engineers, among which there were members of =
LLG or BPFK, maybe for creating various tools for learning Lojban.</div><di=
v><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>Currently, none of them work fine. LLG is d=
ied, BPFK is dying, Lojban Coders&#39; Group is mixing official and unoffic=
ial contents without mentioning responsibility of the unofficial contents.<=
/div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>=C2=
=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"m_-2436283441802202162yiv8093058664gmail_quot=
e" style=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-l=
eft:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div></div><div>I thought about this overnight (!=
) and specifically about one rule: as people discuss about language, is it =
wise to allow discussions to be in Lojban only? Maybe a common rule of requ=
iring a (rough?) translation in another &quot;reference&quot; language woul=
d help. Of course, as there are plenty of materials in English out there, i=
t seems logical that this would be English, but that&#39;s not mandatory, I=
 guess.</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>You known, I&#39;m willing =
to help but I can only help organizing stuff, and spreading the word. Not m=
uch more because of my too recent implication.</div><div><br clear=3D"none"=
></div></div></blockquote><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div><br clear=3D"n=
one"></div><div>I have no problem in discussing Lojban in Lojban. Discussio=
n of Lojban in English continued until 2015, and it also worked fine. I per=
sonally profit more from discussion in Lojban as Lojban exercises. I don=
9;t know what the other members of BPFK think about it.</div><div><br clear=
=3D"none"></div><div>BPFK is currently dying, so it might be worth trying E=
nglish discussion as AED.</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div><br clear=
=3D"none"></div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"m_-243628344180220216=
2yiv8093058664gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left:=
1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div></div><div><font siz=
e=3D"4"><b>* [side note] *</b></font></div><div>Thank you very much for hel=
ping me improving my skills.</div><div><ul><li>&quot;li .abu pi&#39;e pa&qu=
ot; is just a great idea! I didn&#39;t know how to convert the &quot;A1, A2=
, B1, B2, C1, C2&quot; levels, so I used a basic &quot;translation&quot;. B=
ut putting as if it was a number &quot;A dot 1&quot; of unspecified base is=
 awesome!<br clear=3D"none"></li><li>But what about the &quot;less than&quo=
t;? Can I write &quot;me&#39;i li .abu pi&#39;e pa&quot;?<br clear=3D"none"=
></li></ul></div></div></blockquote><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div><br =
clear=3D"none"></div><div>I forgot taking your word {me&#39;a}. It is a fun=
ction word of part of speech BAI, and related to {mleca}. {me&#39;a X} mean=
s therefore that X is less than something involved in the meaning of the st=
atement.</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>If you wanted to say &quot=
;less than X&quot; using a function word of BAI, {mau X} or {se me&#39;a X}=
 would be suitable.</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>In my expressio=
n, it should be replaced by {me&#39;i} just after {li}:</div><div>li me&#39=
;i .abu pi&#39;e pa</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div><br clear=3D"no=
ne"></div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"m_-2436283441802202162yiv80=
93058664gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left:1px #c=
cc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><ul><li></li><li>My bad ab=
out &quot;fo&quot; (and not &quot;fi&quot;): I was counting &quot;fa&quot; =
from x2 instead of x1, as for &quot;se&quot; (because there is no &quot;x1 =
&lt;-&gt; x1&quot; swapping cmavo), so I had an offset of 1. I mixed up cou=
nting rules!<br clear=3D"none"></li><ul><li>Note : I thought &quot;me&#39;a=
...&quot; was a sumti place, but parser told me it&#39;s a modal. So I gues=
s I cannot use it, or else &quot;le ropno bangu bo manri&quot; would fall i=
n m3 place (units) of &quot;kamjunmre&quot;.</li></ul><li>Finally, your las=
t sentence is too obscure for my level! What I understand: &quot;One cannot=
 say `I&#39;m never wrong`. I can only wish (???)&quot;.</li></ul></div><di=
v></div></div></blockquote><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div><br clear=3D"=
none"></div><div>By my last sentence {i na&#39;i ma&#39;i mi na&#39;e toldr=
a i po&#39;o .au sajgau do lo xauzma be fi mi}, I meant &quot;well, from my=
 point of view, you are not wrong. I only want to let you know something be=
tter according to me.&quot;</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>=C2=A0<=
/div><blockquote class=3D"m_-2436283441802202162yiv8093058664gmail_quote" s=
tyle=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:=
1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>ki&#39;ecai</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><=
/div></blockquote><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div><br clear=3D"none"></d=
iv><div>(You may want to insert {do&#39;u}, {i}, {mi&#39;e} or any other wo=
rds for separation here, otherwise you are thanking you.)</div><div><br cle=
ar=3D"none"></div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"m_-2436283441802202=
162yiv8093058664gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;border-lef=
t:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div></div><div>la .syk=
yndyr.</div></div></blockquote><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div><br clear=
=3D"none"></div><div>mu&#39;o mi&#39;e la guskant</div><div class=3D"m_-243=
6283441802202162yiv8093058664yqt2633537889" id=3D"m_-2436283441802202162yiv=
8093058664yqtfd12698"><div>=C2=A0</div></div></div><div class=3D"m_-2436283=
441802202162yiv8093058664yqt2633537889" id=3D"m_-2436283441802202162yiv8093=
058664yqtfd95646">

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