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From: Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2017 13:12:42 +0300
Message-ID: <CAO7bV+h788t+U=FS2b2EjNZRDZOMryLpWSJAjZuEzHzBACbJsg@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: CLL and modern Lojban
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2017-11-08 11:51 GMT+03:00 <sukender1@gmail.com>:

>
>    - I was talking about a live HTML version of the "beta" CLL 1.2 (not
>    meetings)! :-) Is there any?
>
>
There is no such as official CLL 1.2.
Even CLL 1.0 and CLL 1.1 can be named official only if LLG considers *.
lojban.org pages official but there was no procedure in making them
official. John Cowan wrote CLL 1.0, that's it. Robin Powell published CLL
1.1 with a bunch of fixes compared to CLL 1.0, that's it.

There is a list of errata in CLL, whichla mezohe and la gleki recently
turned into a table:

https://mw.lojban.org/papri/CLL,_aka_Reference_Grammar,_Errata

If you fork https://github.com/lojban/cll/ and then apply prs from
https://github.com/lojban/cll/milestone/12 there then you may get something
like CLL 1.2 (mostly fixes of mistypes in English sentences)


>    -
>    - Discussing Lojban in Lojban is surely a *very* good exercise, and
>    that may make some issues of the language arise (I mean: the more you =
use
>    it, the more you test it in real situation). But if "roles" may apply,=
 and
>    if people are subject to move around, then maybe it would be a good id=
ea to
>    get a translation somewhere... Well I'm not absolutely sure on that po=
int
>    but that's what I'm currently thinking about.
>    - Thanks for the language help. Don't be so modest! You actually had
>    the role of a professor/sensei/guide on that point and I thank you for
>    that. (My bad about missing separator! ;-) )
>
> ki'e .i
> la .sykyndyr.
>
>
> Le mardi 7 novembre 2017 17:40:38 UTC+1, guskant a =C3=A9crit :
>>
>>
>>
>> Le mardi 7 novembre 2017 08:49:56 UTC, Benoit Neil a =C3=A9crit :
>>>
>>> doi la .guskant.
>>>
>>> Thanks for the links. That seems interesting, but I just can't read big
>>> Lojban discussions: it took me days (yeah, from time to time, not
>>> continuously!) to read and understand 100% of this famous "la .teris."!
>>> My current level is one of the reasons why I'm absolutely not ready to
>>> enter any board or committee.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> BPFK decided in 2015 to talk in Lojban, but LLG meeting is still talked
>> in English. Some of LLG members are not fluent in Lojban. The LLG meetin=
g
>> is held on a private mailing list, and anyone can attend the meeting by
>> subscribing to the list:
>> http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members
>> You can even request the membership of LLG voting member.
>>
>>
>>
>>> Is there an HTML version somewhere so that everyone can access it
>>> without developer tools?
>>>
>>>
>>
>> HTML version of what?
>> BPFK and LLG are held in mailing list, and Lojban Coders' Group is held
>> on Github. I don't find any other version of meeting minutes.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> ** Paralysis **
>>> So, according to what you say, BPFK is really paralyzed. When you want
>>> to rely on someone's work, well, (s)he might simply be overloaded with
>>> other tasks and may never answer. It seems that there are no "replaceme=
nt"
>>> guys/gals: if one is not able to perform a task, whatever the reason, t=
hen
>>> nobody can replace him/her. Do you think so too?
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Yes.
>>
>>
>>
>>> It feels so dramatic to me that you've lost hope. It is exactly what I
>>> feared: anyone can do whatever, in whatever direction. That's freedom.
>>> That's not wrong in itself. But... nothing more? Ideas create "explosio=
ns"
>>> and there is no structure at all to make all of this collapse to someth=
ing
>>> better and organized?
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I made some critical remarks on the CLL Lojban, and someone agreed, but
>> finally I did not receive enough reaction for including any ideas of the=
m
>> into the CLL:
>>
>> https://mw.lojban.org/papri/gadri:_an_unofficial_commentary_
>> from_a_logical_point_of_view
>> (written in 2014)
>>
>> https://mw.lojban.org/papri/BPFK_Section:_Complement_to_caus
>> ation_sumtcita
>> (written in 2015)
>>
>> https://mw.lojban.org/papri/na_go'i
>> (written in 2016)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> You told your efforts were blocked by some people. Were there
>>> discussions (I mean enough discussions)? Voting? Enough participants in
>>> voting? Enough time for the committee to work on proposals?
>>>
>>>    - If so, maybe there is something to do with structures (as said
>>>    above)?
>>>    - If not, maybe all committee members should accept the fact that
>>>    language will evolve?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Some of the issues were discussed, I think enough, but not brought to
>> voting. As for the others, discussion was stopped in midway. I think the
>> problem is caused by the structure of the committee.
>>
>>
>>
>>> ** Funds **
>>> As I just told to Gleki : "even if many Lojbanists are enthusiasts, the=
y
>>> all need money to live and cannot work for free indefinitely".
>>> You know, some guy on the Facebook group (=D0=A1=D0=B5=D1=80=D0=B3=D0=
=B5=D0=B9 =D0=98=D0=BB=D1=8C=D0=B8=D0=BD=D1=81=D0=BA=D0=B8=D1=85) asked if
>>> "crypto-currency rewards" could be an idea for translations jobs. At fi=
rst
>>> I thought this was not very useful, and surely complex to set up. Howev=
er,
>>> I feel now that the idea behind this (money to encourage people working=
 on
>>> Lojban stuff) may be one of the "energy sources" that would change the
>>> game. Of course, this has to be very carefully handled! But we may imag=
ine
>>> something like periodic small fund raising (donations, crowdfunding, et=
c.)
>>> on one hand, and a system putting clear (and small) objectives and rewa=
rds
>>> on the other hand. I feel like the idea has to be enhanced and discusse=
d...
>>> But don't you think it is worth debating on this? This of course would =
be
>>> only some tools to help, and the current organizations would still be t=
here
>>> and help.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> At least in the current structure of committees, any ideas about rewards
>> will be stuck. Rewards should belong to LLG's business, but the LLG meet=
ing
>> is completely died. My motions for rescuing official contents were alway=
s
>> ignored. They were not even discussed. The main part of the meeting
>> consists of roll call, voting for the board members, and voting for clos=
ing
>> the meeting.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> ** Organizations **
>>> An by the way, this thread highlighted the fact that there are 3 "major=
"
>>> groups down there: LLG, GPFK, and the Coders Group. Even if history may
>>> explain why there are three, the current "freezing" status of all may b=
e a
>>> signal for changing things. I don't know even 1% of what each did; but =
*FROM
>>> AFAR*, it seems that all organizations share some common interests, and
>>> may perform better together. Of course, merging everyone into a single
>>> entity is surely fictional. But they may organize as "subsidiary
>>> companies", sharing a purely administrative section with some functiona=
l
>>> parts (ex: financial as for the previous topic, rule sets, etc.). Do yo=
u
>>> feel this would be technically possible? And would this be desirable an=
d
>>> profitable?
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I guess those three groups worked like a parent company (LLG) and
>> subsidiary companies (BPFK, Lojban Coders' Group) in the past. BPFK was
>> created by LLG in order to complete technical documents. Lojban Coders'
>> Group was created by voluntary IT engineers, among which there were memb=
ers
>> of LLG or BPFK, maybe for creating various tools for learning Lojban.
>>
>> Currently, none of them work fine. LLG is died, BPFK is dying, Lojban
>> Coders' Group is mixing official and unofficial contents without mention=
ing
>> responsibility of the unofficial contents.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> I thought about this overnight (!) and specifically about one rule: as
>>> people discuss about language, is it wise to allow discussions to be in
>>> Lojban only? Maybe a common rule of requiring a (rough?) translation in
>>> another "reference" language would help. Of course, as there are plenty=
 of
>>> materials in English out there, it seems logical that this would be
>>> English, but that's not mandatory, I guess.
>>>
>>> You known, I'm willing to help but I can only help organizing stuff, an=
d
>>> spreading the word. Not much more because of my too recent implication.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I have no problem in discussing Lojban in Lojban. Discussion of Lojban i=
n
>> English continued until 2015, and it also worked fine. I personally prof=
it
>> more from discussion in Lojban as Lojban exercises. I don't know what th=
e
>> other members of BPFK think about it.
>>
>> BPFK is currently dying, so it might be worth trying English discussion
>> as AED.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> ** [side note] **
>>> Thank you very much for helping me improving my skills.
>>>
>>>    - "li .abu pi'e pa" is just a great idea! I didn't know how to
>>>    convert the "A1, A2, B1, B2, C1, C2" levels, so I used a basic
>>>    "translation". But putting as if it was a number "A dot 1" of unspec=
ified
>>>    base is awesome!
>>>    - But what about the "less than"? Can I write "me'i li .abu pi'e pa"=
?
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I forgot taking your word {me'a}. It is a function word of part of speec=
h
>> BAI, and related to {mleca}. {me'a X} means therefore that X is less tha=
n
>> something involved in the meaning of the statement.
>>
>> If you wanted to say "less than X" using a function word of BAI, {mau X}
>> or {se me'a X} would be suitable.
>>
>> In my expression, it should be replaced by {me'i} just after {li}:
>> li me'i .abu pi'e pa
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>    -
>>>    - My bad about "fo" (and not "fi"): I was counting "fa" from x2
>>>    instead of x1, as for "se" (because there is no "x1 <-> x1" swapping
>>>    cmavo), so I had an offset of 1. I mixed up counting rules!
>>>    - Note : I thought "me'a..." was a sumti place, but parser told me
>>>       it's a modal. So I guess I cannot use it, or else "le ropno bangu=
 bo manri"
>>>       would fall in m3 place (units) of "kamjunmre".
>>>    - Finally, your last sentence is too obscure for my level! What I
>>>    understand: "One cannot say `I'm never wrong`. I can only wish (???)=
".
>>>
>>>
>>
>> By my last sentence {i na'i ma'i mi na'e toldra i po'o .au sajgau do lo
>> xauzma be fi mi}, I meant "well, from my point of view, you are not wron=
g.
>> I only want to let you know something better according to me."
>>
>>
>>
>>> ki'ecai
>>>
>>>
>>
>> (You may want to insert {do'u}, {i}, {mi'e} or any other words for
>> separation here, otherwise you are thanking you.)
>>
>>
>>
>>> la .sykyndyr.
>>>
>>
>>
>> mu'o mi'e la guskant
>>
>>
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo=
te">2017-11-08 11:51 GMT+03:00  <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:suk=
ender1@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">sukender1@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span>:<br>=
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><ul=
><li>I was talking about a live HTML version of the &quot;beta&quot; CLL 1.=
2 (not meetings)! :-) Is there any?<br></li></ul></div></div></blockquote><=
div><br></div><div>There is no such as official CLL 1.2.</div><div>Even CLL=
 1.0 and CLL 1.1 can be named official only if LLG considers *.<a href=3D"h=
ttp://lojban.org">lojban.org</a> pages official but there was no procedure =
in making them official. John Cowan wrote CLL 1.0, that&#39;s it. Robin Pow=
ell published CLL 1.1 with a bunch of fixes compared to CLL 1.0, that&#39;s=
 it.</div><div><br></div><div>There is a list of errata in CLL, whichla mez=
ohe and la gleki recently turned into a table:</div><div><br></div><div><a =
href=3D"https://mw.lojban.org/papri/CLL,_aka_Reference_Grammar,_Errata">htt=
ps://mw.lojban.org/papri/CLL,_aka_Reference_Grammar,_Errata</a><br></div><d=
iv><br></div><div>If you fork <a href=3D"https://github.com/lojban/cll/">ht=
tps://github.com/lojban/cll/</a> and then apply prs from=C2=A0<a href=3D"ht=
tps://github.com/lojban/cll/milestone/12">https://github.com/lojban/cll/mil=
estone/12</a> there then you may get something like CLL 1.2 (mostly fixes o=
f mistypes in English sentences)</div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"g=
mail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204=
,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><ul><li></li><li>Discussi=
ng Lojban in Lojban is surely a <u>very</u> good exercise, and that may mak=
e some issues of the language arise (I mean: the more you use it, the more =
you test it in real situation). But if &quot;roles&quot; may apply, and if =
people are subject to move around, then maybe it would be a good idea to ge=
t a translation somewhere... Well I&#39;m not absolutely sure on that point=
 but that&#39;s what I&#39;m currently thinking about.<br></li><li>Thanks f=
or the language help. Don&#39;t be so modest! You actually had the role of =
a professor/sensei/guide on that point and I thank you for that. (My bad ab=
out missing separator! ;-) )<br></li></ul></div><div>ki&#39;e .i</div><div>=
la .sykyndyr.</div><div><div class=3D"gmail-h5"><div><br></div><br>Le mardi=
 7 novembre 2017 17:40:38 UTC+1, guskant a =C3=A9crit=C2=A0:<blockquote cla=
ss=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid =
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><br>Le mardi 7 nove=
mbre 2017 08:49:56 UTC, Benoit Neil a =C3=A9crit=C2=A0:<blockquote class=3D=
"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(2=
04,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>doi la .guskant.</div><=
div><br></div><div>Thanks for the links. That seems interesting, but I just=
 can&#39;t read big Lojban discussions: it took me days (yeah, from time to=
 time, not continuously!) to read and understand 100% of this famous &quot;=
la .teris.&quot;!</div><div>My current level is one of the reasons why I=
9;m absolutely not ready to enter any board or committee.</div><div><br></d=
iv></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>BPFK decided in 20=
15 to talk in Lojban, but LLG meeting is still talked in English. Some of L=
LG members are not fluent in Lojban. The LLG meeting is held on a private m=
ailing list, and anyone can attend the meeting by subscribing to the list:<=
/div><div><a href=3D"http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members" r=
el=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">http://mail.lojban.org/mailman<wbr>/listi=
nfo/llg-members</a></div><div>You can even request the membership of LLG vo=
ting member.</div><div><br></div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmai=
l_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,20=
4,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div></div><div>Is there an HTML =
version somewhere so that everyone can access it without developer tools?</=
div><div><br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>HT=
ML version of what?</div><div>BPFK and LLG are held in mailing list, and Lo=
jban Coders&#39; Group is held on Github. I don&#39;t find any other versio=
n of meeting minutes.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>=C2=A0</div><=
blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-l=
eft:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div></di=
v><div><font size=3D"4"><b>* Paralysis *</b></font></div><div>So, according=
 to what you say, BPFK is really paralyzed. When you want to rely on someon=
e&#39;s work, well, (s)he might simply be overloaded with other tasks and m=
ay never answer. It seems that there are no &quot;replacement&quot; guys/ga=
ls: if one is not able to perform a task, whatever the reason, then nobody =
can replace him/her. Do you think so too?</div><div><br></div></div></block=
quote><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Yes.</div><div><br></div><div>=C2=
=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8e=
x;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"=
><div></div><div>It feels so dramatic to me that you&#39;ve lost hope. It i=
s exactly what I feared: anyone can do whatever, in whatever direction. Tha=
t&#39;s freedom. That&#39;s not wrong in itself. But... nothing more? Ideas=
 create &quot;explosions&quot; and there is no structure at all to make all=
 of this collapse to something better and organized?</div><div><br></div></=
div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>I made some critical re=
marks on the CLL Lojban, and someone agreed, but finally I did not receive =
enough reaction for including any ideas of them into the CLL:</div><div><br=
></div><div><a href=3D"https://mw.lojban.org/papri/gadri:_an_unofficial_com=
mentary_from_a_logical_point_of_view" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tps://mw.lojban.org/papri/ga<wbr>dri:_an_unofficial_commentary_<wbr>from_a_=
logical_point_of_view</a></div><div>(written in 2014)</div><div><br></div><=
div><a href=3D"https://mw.lojban.org/papri/BPFK_Section:_Complement_to_caus=
ation_sumtcita" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">https://mw.lojban.org/pa=
pri/BP<wbr>FK_Section:_Complement_to_caus<wbr>ation_sumtcita</a></div><div>=
(written in 2015)</div><div><br></div><div><a href=3D"https://mw.lojban.org=
/papri/na_go&#39;i" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">https://mw.lojban.or=
g/papri/na<wbr>_go&#39;i</a></div><div>(written in 2016)</div><div><br></di=
v><div><br></div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding=
-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div></div><div>You told your efforts were bloc=
ked by some people. Were there discussions (I mean enough discussions)? Vot=
ing? Enough participants in voting? Enough time for the committee to work o=
n proposals?</div><div><ul><li>If so, maybe there is something to do with s=
tructures (as said above)?<br></li><li>If not, maybe all committee members =
should accept the fact that language will evolve?<br></li></ul></div><div><=
br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Some of the =
issues were discussed, I think enough, but not brought to voting. As for th=
e others, discussion was stopped in midway. I think the problem is caused b=
y the structure of the committee.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>=C2=A0</di=
v><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;borde=
r-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><=
/div><div><font size=3D"4"><b>* Funds *</b></font></div><div>As I just told=
 to Gleki : &quot;even if many Lojbanists are enthusiasts, they all need mo=
ney to live and cannot work for free indefinitely&quot;.</div><div>You know=
, some guy on the Facebook group (=D0=A1=D0=B5=D1=80=D0=B3=D0=B5=D0=B9 =D0=
=98=D0=BB=D1=8C=D0=B8=D0=BD=D1=81=D0=BA=D0=B8=D1=85) asked if &quot;crypto-=
currency rewards&quot; could be an idea for translations jobs. At first I t=
hought this was not very useful, and surely complex to set up. However, I f=
eel now that the idea behind this (money to encourage people working on Loj=
ban stuff) may be one of the &quot;energy sources&quot; that would change t=
he game. Of course, this has to be very carefully handled! But we may imagi=
ne something like periodic small fund raising (donations, crowdfunding, etc=
.) on one hand, and a system putting clear (and small) objectives and rewar=
ds on the other hand. I feel like the idea has to be enhanced and discussed=
... But don&#39;t you think it is worth debating on this? This of course wo=
uld be only some tools to help, and the current organizations would still b=
e there and help.</div><div><br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><di=
v><br></div><div>At least in the current structure of committees, any ideas=
 about rewards will be stuck. Rewards should belong to LLG&#39;s business, =
but the LLG meeting is completely died. My motions for rescuing official co=
ntents were always ignored. They were not even discussed. The main part of =
the meeting consists of roll call, voting for the board members, and voting=
 for closing the meeting.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>=C2=A0</d=
iv><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;bord=
er-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>=
</div><div><font size=3D"4"><b>* Organizations *</b></font></div><div>An by=
 the way, this thread highlighted the fact that there are 3 &quot;major&quo=
t; groups down there: LLG, GPFK, and the Coders Group. Even if history may =
explain why there are three, the current &quot;freezing&quot; status of all=
 may be a signal for changing things. I don&#39;t know even 1% of what each=
 did; but <b><u>FROM AFAR</u></b>, it seems that all organizations share so=
me common interests, and may perform better together. Of course, merging ev=
eryone into a single entity is surely fictional. But they may organize as &=
quot;subsidiary companies&quot;, sharing a purely administrative section wi=
th some functional parts (ex: financial as for the previous topic, rule set=
s, etc.). Do you feel this would be technically possible? And would this be=
 desirable and profitable?</div><div><br></div></div></blockquote><div><br>=
</div><div><br></div><div>I guess those three groups worked like a parent c=
ompany (LLG) and subsidiary companies (BPFK, Lojban Coders&#39; Group) in t=
he past. BPFK was created by LLG in order to complete technical documents. =
Lojban Coders&#39; Group was created by voluntary IT engineers, among which=
 there were members of LLG or BPFK, maybe for creating various tools for le=
arning Lojban.</div><div><br></div><div>Currently, none of them work fine. =
LLG is died, BPFK is dying, Lojban Coders&#39; Group is mixing official and=
 unofficial contents without mentioning responsibility of the unofficial co=
ntents.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote cla=
ss=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid =
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div></div><div>I thoug=
ht about this overnight (!) and specifically about one rule: as people disc=
uss about language, is it wise to allow discussions to be in Lojban only? M=
aybe a common rule of requiring a (rough?) translation in another &quot;ref=
erence&quot; language would help. Of course, as there are plenty of materia=
ls in English out there, it seems logical that this would be English, but t=
hat&#39;s not mandatory, I guess.</div><div><br></div><div>You known, I&#39=
;m willing to help but I can only help organizing stuff, and spreading the =
word. Not much more because of my too recent implication.</div><div><br></d=
iv></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>I have no problem =
in discussing Lojban in Lojban. Discussion of Lojban in English continued u=
ntil 2015, and it also worked fine. I personally profit more from discussio=
n in Lojban as Lojban exercises. I don&#39;t know what the other members of=
 BPFK think about it.</div><div><br></div><div>BPFK is currently dying, so =
it might be worth trying English discussion as AED.</div><div><br></div><di=
v><br></div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"mar=
gin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1=
ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div></div><div><font size=3D"4"><b>* [side note] *</b=
></font></div><div>Thank you very much for helping me improving my skills.<=
/div><div><ul><li>&quot;li .abu pi&#39;e pa&quot; is just a great idea! I d=
idn&#39;t know how to convert the &quot;A1, A2, B1, B2, C1, C2&quot; levels=
, so I used a basic &quot;translation&quot;. But putting as if it was a num=
ber &quot;A dot 1&quot; of unspecified base is awesome!<br></li><li>But wha=
t about the &quot;less than&quot;? Can I write &quot;me&#39;i li .abu pi=
9;e pa&quot;?<br></li></ul></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br=
></div><div>I forgot taking your word {me&#39;a}. It is a function word of =
part of speech BAI, and related to {mleca}. {me&#39;a X} means therefore th=
at X is less than something involved in the meaning of the statement.</div>=
<div><br></div><div>If you wanted to say &quot;less than X&quot; using a fu=
nction word of BAI, {mau X} or {se me&#39;a X} would be suitable.</div><div=
><br></div><div>In my expression, it should be replaced by {me&#39;i} just =
after {li}:</div><div>li me&#39;i .abu pi&#39;e pa</div><div><br></div><div=
><br></div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"marg=
in:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1e=
x"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><ul><li></li><li>My bad about &quot;fo&quot; (and =
not &quot;fi&quot;): I was counting &quot;fa&quot; from x2 instead of x1, a=
s for &quot;se&quot; (because there is no &quot;x1 &lt;-&gt; x1&quot; swapp=
ing cmavo), so I had an offset of 1. I mixed up counting rules!<br></li><ul=
><li>Note : I thought &quot;me&#39;a...&quot; was a sumti place, but parser=
 told me it&#39;s a modal. So I guess I cannot use it, or else &quot;le rop=
no bangu bo manri&quot; would fall in m3 place (units) of &quot;kamjunmre&q=
uot;.</li></ul><li>Finally, your last sentence is too obscure for my level!=
 What I understand: &quot;One cannot say `I&#39;m never wrong`. I can only =
wish (???)&quot;.</li></ul></div><div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></d=
iv><div><br></div><div>By my last sentence {i na&#39;i ma&#39;i mi na&#39;e=
 toldra i po&#39;o .au sajgau do lo xauzma be fi mi}, I meant &quot;well, f=
rom my point of view, you are not wrong. I only want to let you know someth=
ing better according to me.&quot;</div><div><br></div><div>=C2=A0</div><blo=
ckquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left=
:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>ki&#39;=
ecai</div><div><br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div><=
div>(You may want to insert {do&#39;u}, {i}, {mi&#39;e} or any other words =
for separation here, otherwise you are thanking you.)</div><div><br></div><=
div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0=
px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><div></div><div>la .sykyndyr.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></d=
iv><div><br></div><div>mu&#39;o mi&#39;e la guskant</div><div>=C2=A0</div><=
/div></blockquote></div></div></div><div class=3D"gmail-HOEnZb"><div class=
=3D"gmail-h5">

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