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Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: CLL and modern Lojban
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From: Ilmen <ilmen.pokebip@gmail.com>
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Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2017 12:55:41 +0100
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Incidentally, there is a work-in-progress piece of software that aim to=20
translate back and forth between Lojban and a custom logical notation ;=20
the project is called Tersmu: https://gitorious.org/tersmu/tersmu/

There's an interface to it on IRC, it's clearly not finished but is=20
already pretty good.

Here's a few samples of input-output:

=E2=80=A2 ro mlatu cu mabru
=C2=BB =E2=88=80x1:(mlatu(_)). mabru(x1)

=E2=80=A2 .e'a do xagji na gi'a citka su'o da
=C2=BB (xagji(do) =E2=86=92 =E2=88=83x1. citka(do,x1))

=E2=80=A2 na ku ro plise cu xunre
=C2=BB =C2=AC=E2=88=80x1:(plise(_)). xunre(x1)

=E2=80=A2 ro te cange poi ponse su'o xasli cu darxi ri
=C2=BB =E2=88=80x1:((cange( , ,_) =E2=88=A7 =E2=88=83x2:(xasli(_)). ponse(_=
,x2))). darxi(x1,{ri})


On 12/11/2017 02:58, 'John E Clifford' via lojban wrote:
> 1. =C2=A0What was the initial screw-up? =C2=A0FOPL (or HOIL or whatever s=
ystem=20
> you choose) depends upon a clear demarcation of different syntactic=20
> types (and the corresponding different semantics). =C2=A0JCB, from the=20
> beginning, scrambled these types: quantifiers (sentence-makers with=20
> one variable and one sentence) are terms, conjunctions=20
> (sentence-makers with two sentences) are term-makers, modals, tenses=20
> and negation (sentence-makers with one sentence) are predicate makers=20
> and so on. =C2=A0How is teh structure that allows a logical system to wor=
k=20
> to be found in all that muddle? =C2=A0To be sure, in the interest of=20
> speakablity, some such changes will have to come about, but they are=20
> at the end of a process of derivation, not at the beginning. =C2=A0Most o=
f=20
> the 60 year Logjam construction process has been rying to patch up=20
> this gap -- and there is no evidence that it has succeeded -- or is=20
> even going in the right direction. =C2=A0Monoparsing, yes (pretty much),=
=20
> but not evidence of correct monoparsing.

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<html>
  <head>
    <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8=
">
  </head>
  <body bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF" text=3D"#000000">
    <p>Incidentally, there is a work-in-progress piece of software that
      aim to translate back and forth between Lojban and a custom
      logical notation ; the project is called Tersmu: <a
        moz-do-not-send=3D"true"
        href=3D"https://gitorious.org/tersmu/tersmu/">https://gitorious.org=
/tersmu/tersmu/</a><br>
    </p>
    There's an interface to it on IRC, it's clearly not finished but is
    already pretty good.<br>
    <br>
    Here's a few samples of input-output:<br>
    <br>
    =E2=80=A2 ro mlatu cu mabru<br>
    =C2=BB =E2=88=80x1:(mlatu(_)). mabru(x1)<br>
    <br>
    =E2=80=A2 .e'a do xagji na gi'a citka su'o da<br>
    =C2=BB (xagji(do) =E2=86=92 =E2=88=83x1. citka(do,x1))<br>
    <br>
    =E2=80=A2 na ku ro plise cu xunre<br>
    =C2=BB =C2=AC=E2=88=80x1:(plise(_)). xunre(x1)<br>
    <br>
    =E2=80=A2 ro te cange poi ponse su'o xasli cu darxi ri<br>
    =C2=BB =E2=88=80x1:((cange( , ,_) =E2=88=A7 =E2=88=83x2:(xasli(_)). pon=
se(_,x2))). darxi(x1,{ri})<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix">On 12/11/2017 02:58, 'John E Clifford'
      via lojban wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type=3D"cite"
      cite=3D"mid:864278277.359141.1510451894891@mail.yahoo.com">
      <div style=3D"font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial,
        sans-serif;font-size:13px;">1. =C2=A0What was the initial screw-up?
        =C2=A0FOPL (or HOIL or whatever system you choose) depends upon a
        clear demarcation of different syntactic types (and the
        corresponding different semantics). =C2=A0JCB, from the beginning,
        scrambled these types: quantifiers (sentence-makers with one
        variable and one sentence) are terms, conjunctions
        (sentence-makers with two sentences) are term-makers, modals,
        tenses and negation (sentence-makers with one sentence) are
        predicate makers and so on. =C2=A0How is teh structure that allows =
a
        logical system to work to be found in all that muddle? =C2=A0To be
        sure, in the interest of speakablity, some such changes will
        have to come about, but they are at the end of a process of
        derivation, not at the beginning. =C2=A0Most of the 60 year Logjam
        construction process has been rying to patch up this gap -- and
        there is no evidence that it has succeeded -- or is even going
        in the right direction. =C2=A0Monoparsing, yes (pretty much), but n=
ot
        evidence of correct monoparsing.<br>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
  </body>
</html>

<p></p>

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