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Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2017 02:44:48 -0800 (PST)
From: sukender1@gmail.com
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Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: CLL and modern Lojban
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Wow. I mean "Waaaaaaow!": you guys & gals seem to have "somewhat deeply" 
study subject of languages, logic, predicates, morphisms, philosophy... and 
a few other words I'm not 100% sure I understand the contours (maybe my 
English level?). Of course, you may say that you did not dive as deep as 
you wanted ;) ...

I also have the feeling that two reading levels arose: the "technical" 
discussion, and the "user" discussion.
I would certainly not break up the discussion, so please go on with the 
"technical" level: that brings very interesting things.

But as interesting it is, I'd also like to come to a very low-brow / 
down-to-earth / "simple" user point of view. That was actually what I 
wanted to do with my basic summary. Gleki and guskant pointed out 
interesting imprecisions/mistakes (thank you both), and others added many 
details (thank you too). So, may I try again?

http://sukender.free.fr/articles/2017-11-13%20Lojban%20fundamentals.xhtml

In this version:

   - I'm still keeping it readable by "anyone" (actually a potential new 
   Lojbanist with absolutely no specific knowledge related to it).
   - This time, I'm not writing what Lojban "is". I rather had similar 
   content with a bit more distant approach: I'm telling the "work about 
   Lojban tended to (...blah blah...) and any change should not break up those 
   fundamentals". That's slightly different. That way, I can tackle the two 
   points Gleki rightly pointed out:
   

   1. "Culturally neutral" is okay as long as it is an clear it is an 
      *intent*, and that it is something really *partial*.
      2. Document is both about description and politics of future Lojban.
   

   - Last point implies neutrality of the document (which may be 
   difficult). I'm trying to keep it neutral regarding to various expressed 
   points of view in this thread. Said otherwise: I try to catch what 
   supposedly "reformists" and "fundamentalists" (sorry for the names) agree 
   on, as for an external observer. As la .pycyn. pointed out, none of those 
   two "goals" are clear.
   

Please provide any critics, on the form and substance. You'll see I added 
yellow highlighting: those items are clearly to be debated/adjusted.
And maybe a section with "major" (!) ways of thinking the furure of Lojban 
should be expressed?...

Hope to read you soon.

Cheers,

la .sykyndyr.

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Wow. I mean &quot;Waaaaaaow!&quot;: you guys &amp; ga=
ls seem to have &quot;somewhat deeply&quot; study subject of languages, log=
ic, predicates, morphisms, philosophy... and a few other words I&#39;m not =
100% sure I understand the contours (maybe my English level?). Of course, y=
ou may say that you did not dive as deep as you wanted ;) ...</div><div><br=
></div><div>I also have the feeling that two reading levels arose: the &quo=
t;technical&quot; discussion, and the &quot;user&quot; discussion.</div><di=
v>I would certainly not break up the discussion, so please go on with the &=
quot;technical&quot; level: that brings very interesting things.<br></div><=
div><br></div><div>But as interesting it is, I&#39;d also like to come to a=
 very low-brow / down-to-earth / &quot;simple&quot; user point of view. Tha=
t was actually what I wanted to do with my basic summary. Gleki and guskant=
 pointed out interesting imprecisions/mistakes (thank you both), and others=
 added many details (thank you too). So, may I try again?</div><div><br></d=
iv><div><a href=3D"http://sukender.free.fr/articles/2017-11-13%20Lojban%20f=
undamentals.xhtml">http://sukender.free.fr/articles/2017-11-13%20Lojban%20f=
undamentals.xhtml</a></div><div><br></div><div>In this version:</div><div><=
ul><li>I&#39;m still keeping it readable by &quot;anyone&quot; (actually a =
potential new Lojbanist with absolutely no specific knowledge related to it=
).<br></li><li>This time, I&#39;m not writing what Lojban &quot;is&quot;. I=
 rather had similar content with a bit more distant approach: I&#39;m telli=
ng the &quot;work about Lojban tended to (...blah blah...) and any change s=
hould not break up those fundamentals&quot;. That&#39;s slightly different.=
 That way, I can tackle the two points Gleki rightly pointed out:<br></li><=
/ul><ol><ol><li>&quot;Culturally neutral&quot; is okay as long as it is an =
clear it is an <u>intent</u>, and that it is something really <u>partial</u=
>.</li><li>Document is both about description and politics of future Lojban=
.</li></ol></ol><ul><li>Last point implies neutrality of the document (whic=
h may be difficult). I&#39;m trying to keep it neutral regarding to various=
 expressed points of view in this thread. Said otherwise: I try to catch wh=
at supposedly &quot;reformists&quot; and &quot;fundamentalists&quot; (sorry=
 for the names) agree on, as for an external observer. As la .pycyn. pointe=
d out, none of those two &quot;goals&quot; are clear.<br></li></ul></div><d=
iv><br></div><div>Please provide any critics, on the form and substance. Yo=
u&#39;ll see I added yellow highlighting: those items are clearly to be deb=
ated/adjusted.</div><div>And maybe a section with &quot;major&quot; (!) way=
s of thinking the furure of Lojban should be expressed?...</div><div><br></=
div><div>Hope to read you soon.</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers,</div><div>=
<br></div><div>la .sykyndyr.</div></div>

<p></p>

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