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From: Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 07:23:57 +0300
Message-ID: <CAO7bV+hQrKz+QwCT3J+-HaRB_t90t0onifzQeEZ4ts+J3pkLbg@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: CLL and modern Lojban
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2017-11-21 23:38 GMT+03:00 <sukender1@gmail.com>:

>
> Hm... good point. Are you absolutely sure the community can't
>>> self-organize ?
>>>
>>
>> You just witnessed it with your own eyes (PEG issue). It's only you who
>> must study the subject, not delegate dealing with it to someone else.
>>
>
> Sorry I don't understand clearly your answers.
>

You saw how someone thought that PEG grammar can resolve parsing ambiguity,
which is wrong.
This wrong opinion can proliferate in the community of people who don't
understand these core parts of Lojban, which can result in deteriorating of
Lojban and in the long run abandoing it. It's easy to introduce bugs than
to support a functional program.


> Okay I understand you think no self-organization can happen. What do you
> mean with the second sentence? What must I study, according to you?
>

Lojban grammar, Lojban language and its underlying principles. In the case
of PEG you can study CFG, YACC, BNF, PEG, probably everything from regular
expressions to turing, machines, how they work, you may stuydy the history
of PEG grammar of Lojban (logs here
<http://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/lojban>).


>
> In that case, any better idea to avoid current issues? I mean:
>>>
>>>    1. Actual "experts" may be lead to an even more cluttered situation.
>>>    2. The community is heterogeneous and cannot tell who are to be the
>>>    "meritant" (worthy) ones.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Or maybe some kind of algorithm checking the "merit" of the user by
>>>>> scanning cor contributions and posted messages? Well, that last idea may be
>>>>> cumbersome, but...
>>>>>
>>>>
>>> And about this? May we find a set of rules that can roughly "sort" user
>>> in a few groups? Maybe that would be imprecise and imperfect, but that may
>>> be better than nothing.
>>>
>>
>> What are the problems you currently have?
>>
>
> The problem is about grabbing points of view on how to define "expert" or
> "merit" in the topic. You told me we can't rely on current "experts", and
> that sounds fine to me. Do you have anything to propose, regarding the
> submission protocol draft I posted?
>

Why do you even need experts? What's your ultimate goal?


>
> Thanks.
>
> --
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>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo=
te">2017-11-21 23:38 GMT+03:00  <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:suk=
ender1@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">sukender1@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span>:<br>=
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><span class=3D""><div><br><=
/div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;=
border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div cla=
ss=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 =
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div>Hm... good point. Ar=
e you absolutely sure the community can&#39;t self-organize ?</div></blockq=
uote><div><br></div><div>You just witnessed it with your own eyes (PEG issu=
e). It&#39;s only you who must study the subject, not delegate dealing with=
 it to someone else.</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></s=
pan><div>Sorry I don&#39;t understand clearly your answers.</div></div></bl=
ockquote><div><br></div><div>You saw how someone thought that PEG grammar c=
an resolve parsing ambiguity, which is wrong.</div><div>This wrong opinion =
can proliferate in the community of people who don&#39;t understand these c=
ore parts of Lojban, which can result in deteriorating of Lojban and in the=
 long run abandoing it. It&#39;s easy to introduce bugs than to support a f=
unctional program.</div><div><br></div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padd=
ing-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div> Okay I understand you think no self-or=
ganization can happen. What do you mean with the second sentence? What must=
 I study, according to you?</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Loj=
ban grammar, Lojban language and its underlying principles. In the case of =
PEG you can study CFG, YACC, BNF, PEG, probably everything from regular exp=
ressions to turing, machines, how they work, you may stuydy the history of =
PEG grammar of Lojban (logs <a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/forum/#!for=
um/lojban">here</a>).</div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote"=
 style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><d=
iv dir=3D"ltr"><span class=3D""><div><br></div><div><br></div><blockquote c=
lass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left:1px #c=
cc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"=
><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1=
px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div> In that case,=C2=A0any better idea to=
 avoid current issues? I mean:</div><div><ol><li>Actual &quot;experts&quot;=
 may be lead to an even more cluttered situation.</li><li>The community is =
heterogeneous and cannot tell who are to be the &quot;meritant&quot; (worth=
y) ones.</li></ol></div><span><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_q=
uote" style=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;paddin=
g-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote cl=
ass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;p=
adding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div> Or maybe some kind of algorithm che=
cking the &quot;merit&quot; of the user by scanning cor contributions and p=
osted messages? Well, that last idea may be cumbersome, but...</div></div><=
/blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span><div>And a=
bout this? May we find a set of rules that can roughly &quot;sort&quot; use=
r in a few groups? Maybe that would be imprecise and imperfect, but that ma=
y be better than nothing.</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>What are th=
e problems you currently have?=C2=A0</div></div></div></div></blockquote><d=
iv><br></div></span><div>The problem is about grabbing points of view on ho=
w to define &quot;expert&quot; or &quot;merit&quot; in the topic. You told =
me we can&#39;t rely on current &quot;experts&quot;, and that sounds fine t=
o me. Do you have anything to propose, regarding the submission protocol dr=
aft I posted?</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Why do you even n=
eed experts? What&#39;s your ultimate goal?</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquo=
te class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc so=
lid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><br></div><div>Thanks.</div></d=
iv><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5">

<p></p>

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</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div>

<p></p>

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