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[2607:f8b0:400e:c00::22c]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ay2-v6si772433plb.3.2018.01.30.18.30.40 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 30 Jan 2018 18:30:40 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lytlesw@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400e:c00::22c as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:400e:c00::22c; Received: by mail-pf0-x22c.google.com with SMTP id e76so11092159pfk.1 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 2018 18:30:40 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:4:: with SMTP id 4-v6mr26813785pla.187.1517365839628; Tue, 30 Jan 2018 18:30:39 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.236.189.147 with HTTP; Tue, 30 Jan 2018 18:30:09 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: MorphemeAddict Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2018 20:30:09 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] use-mention errors To: lojban@googlegroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000dd906a0564094375" X-Original-Sender: lytlesw@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=GpGnp8kp; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lytlesw@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400e:c00::22c as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=lytlesw@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Spam-Checked-In-Group: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -2.2 (--) X-Spam_score: -2.2 X-Spam_score_int: -21 X-Spam_bar: -- --000000000000dd906a0564094375 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I looked up all the words in your Lojban, but I can't quite figure out the distinction you're making. The Hebrew in the video was fun to listen to, too. (I don't understand it, either.) stevo Virus-free. www.avast.com <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> On Tue, Jan 30, 2018 at 8:10 AM, Michael Turniansky wrote: > A funny textbook example of use-mention error came up today in English > (well, Yeshivish) in our Talmud study. We are studying the tractate of > "Avodah Zorah" ("Idol Worship"), and our rabbi said, "Sometimes, when you > feel excitement building in you and you don't know what it is, it's 'Avodah > Zorah'" (https://youtu.be/zbg4xenUuuM?t=1048) He immediately retracted > it, because although he meant "di'inaiku do cinmo lo banro terfra be ne'i > do ku gi'e na djuno lo du'u by du makau .i by nu co'e la'e lu nu malceisni > cesri'isi'a li'u " but it sounded like he meant "li'o by za'i malceisni > cesri'isi'a" > > --gejyspa > > > > On Sun, Jan 28, 2018 at 6:19 PM, MorphemeAddict wrote: > >> I just watched Daniel Dennett's video on reverse-engineering religion, >> and he mentions use-mention errors a lot toward the end of it. I knew that >> "zo" was meant to avoid this problem, and I was curious how well it works. >> >> According to gleki (talking about only fluent speakers on IRC), it works >> pretty well. >> According to John (talking more generally), maybe it hasn't seen its full >> potential. >> >> stevo >> >> On Sun, Jan 28, 2018 at 7:11 AM, Michael Turniansky < >> mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> AFAIK, I never commit use-mention errors in lojban. Where have you >>> seen otherwise? >>> >>> On Sun, Jan 28, 2018 at 6:26 AM, MorphemeAddict >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Do speakers of Lojban commit use-mention errors? I understand that the >>>> reason for the distinction between "lo prami" and "zo prami" is to avoid >>>> precisely this kind of problem, but is it working? >>>> >>>> stevo >>>> >>>> >>>> Virus-free. >>>> www.avast.com >>>> >>>> <#m_7256839501786065461_m_-3469612977072485121_m_-2201188269926137722_m_-5044624211989899210_m_-8403255904962934270_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "lojban" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lojban. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "lojban" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lojban. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "lojban" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lojban. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --000000000000dd906a0564094375 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I looked up all the words in your Lojban, but I can't qu= ite figure out the distinction you're making.
The Hebrew in the vide= o was fun to listen to, too. (I don't understand it, either.)
stevo<= /div>

3D"" Virus-free. www.avast.com

On Tue, Jan 30, 2018 at 8:10 AM, Michael Turniansky <= mturniansky@gmai= l.com> wrote:
=C2=A0 A funny textbook example of use-mention error came up today in E= nglish (well, Yeshivish) in our Talmud study.=C2=A0 We are studying the tra= ctate of "Avodah Zorah" ("Idol Worship"), and our rabbi= said, "Sometimes, when you feel excitement building in you and you do= n't know what it is, it's 'Avodah Zorah'" (https://youtu.be/z= bg4xenUuuM?t=3D1048)=C2=A0He immediately retracted it, because alt= hough he meant "di'inaiku do cinmo lo banro terfra be ne'i do = ku gi'e=C2=A0 na djuno lo du'u by du makau .i by nu co'e la'= ;e lu nu malceisni cesri'isi'a li'u " but it sounded like = he meant "li'o by za'i malceisni cesri'isi'a"
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0--ge= jyspa
=C2=A0=C2=A0


On Sun, Jan 28, 2018 at 6:19 PM, MorphemeAddict <lytlesw@gmail.com&= gt; wrote:
I just w= atched Daniel Dennett's video on reverse-engineering religion, and he m= entions use-mention errors a lot toward the end of it. I knew that "zo= " was meant to avoid this problem, and I was curious how well it works= .=C2=A0

According to gleki (talking about only fluent speake= rs on IRC), it works pretty well.=C2=A0
According to John (talking more = generally), maybe it hasn't seen its full potential.=C2=A0

s= tevo

O= n Sun, Jan 28, 2018 at 7:11 AM, Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.= com> wrote:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0AFAIK, I never commit use-mention errors in lojban.=C2=A0 Wh= ere have you seen otherwise?

On Sun, Jan 28, 2018 at 6:26 AM, MorphemeAddict &= lt;lytlesw@gmail.com= > wrote:
<= div class=3D"m_7256839501786065461m_-3469612977072485121h5">
= Do speakers of Lojban commit use-mention errors? I understand that the reas= on for the distinction between "lo prami" and "zo prami"= ; is to avoid precisely this kind of problem, but is it working?=C2=A0
<= br>
stevo

3D"" Virus-free. www.avast.com

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