Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com
Date: Mon, 21 May 2018 07:32:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: psyqin@126.com
To: lojban <lojban@googlegroups.com>
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 <20090911171920.GR2685@nvg.org>
Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: E-Prime & Lojban
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=E5=9C=A8 2009=E5=B9=B49=E6=9C=8812=E6=97=A5=E6=98=9F=E6=9C=9F=E5=85=AD UTC=
+8=E4=B8=8A=E5=8D=881:19:20=EF=BC=8CArnt Richard Johansen=E5=86=99=E9=81=93=
=EF=BC=9A
>
> On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 01:09:22PM +0200, tijlan wrote:
> > What do you think of E-Prime?
>
> E-Prime is a variant of English that forbids constructions where the=20
> copula verb "to be" is obligatory. Supposedly, this changes communication=
=20
> and possibly also thought by making subjective judgements more overt.
>
> The problem is that the copula in English is a purely superficial part of=
=20
> the grammar, which is almost completely separate from the semantic layer.=
=20
> So merely reformulating sentences without copulas has no bearing on=20
> "judgementalness", "Aristotelian essentialism" &c. It is easy to show tha=
t=20
> this is the case by "translating" the following sentences from=20
> http://nobeliefs.com/eprime.htm in a way that conforms to the rules of=20
> E-Prime, yet undermines its purpose.
>
> 1A. The electron is a wave.
>     We consider the electron a wave.
> 2A. The electron is a particle.
>     We consider the electron a particle.
> 3A. John is lethargic and unhappy.
>     John lacks energy and has a bad mood.
> 4A. John is bright and cheerful.
>     John bursts with energy and cheerfulness.
> 5A. This is the knife the first man used to stab the second man.
>     The first man stabbed the second man with this knife.
> 6A. The car involved in the hit-and-run accident was a blue Ford.
>     The driver of a blue Ford hit a person and then drove off.
> 7A. This is a fascist idea.
>     This idea bears all the hallmarks of fascism.
> 8A. Beethoven is better than Mozart.
>     Beethoven's work exceeds that of Mozart in quality.
> 9A. That is a sexist movie.
>     This movie reeks of sexism.
> 10A. The fetus is a person.
>      A fetus becomes a person the moment the sperm enters the egg.
>
> --=20
> Arnt Richard Johansen                                http://arj.nvg.org/
> - Hvorfor snakker man engelsk p=EF=BF=BD Internet?
> - Har du h=EF=BF=BDrt om minste felles nevner?
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-li...@lojban.org=20
> <javascript:>
> with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
> you're really stuck, send mail to secr...@lojban.org <javascript:> for=20
> help.
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><br>=E5=9C=A8 2009=E5=B9=B49=E6=9C=8812=E6=97=A5=E6=98=
=9F=E6=9C=9F=E5=85=AD UTC+8=E4=B8=8A=E5=8D=881:19:20=EF=BC=8CArnt Richard J=
ohansen=E5=86=99=E9=81=93=EF=BC=9A<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: =
1ex;">On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 01:09:22PM +0200, tijlan wrote:<br>&gt; What =
do you think of E-Prime?<p>E-Prime is a variant of English that forbids con=
structions where the copula verb &quot;to be&quot; is obligatory. Supposedl=
y, this changes communication and possibly also thought by making subjectiv=
e judgements more overt.</p><p>The problem is that the copula in English is=
 a purely superficial part of the grammar, which is almost completely separ=
ate from the semantic layer. So merely reformulating sentences without copu=
las has no bearing on &quot;judgementalness&quot;, &quot;Aristotelian essen=
tialism&quot; &amp;c. It is easy to show that this is the case by &quot;tra=
nslating&quot; the following sentences from <a href=3D"http://nobeliefs.com=
/eprime.htm" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" onmousedown=3D"this.href=3D=
&#39;http://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttp%3A%2F%2Fnobeliefs.com%2Feprime.htm=
\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNFIkWkUFjJjczEgx64lzB5Dd35rHg&#39;;=
return true;" onclick=3D"this.href=3D&#39;http://www.google.com/url?q\x3dht=
tp%3A%2F%2Fnobeliefs.com%2Feprime.htm\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQ=
jCNFIkWkUFjJjczEgx64lzB5Dd35rHg&#39;;return true;">http://nobeliefs.com/epr=
ime.<wbr>htm</a> in a way that conforms to the rules of E-Prime, yet underm=
ines its purpose.</p><p>1A. The electron is a wave.<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 We con=
sider the electron a wave.<br>2A. The electron is a particle.<br>=C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 We consider the electron a particle.<br>3A. John is lethargic and unhap=
py.<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 John lacks energy and has a bad mood.<br>4A. John is b=
right and cheerful.<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 John bursts with energy and cheerfulne=
ss.<br>5A. This is the knife the first man used to stab the second man.<br>=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 The first man stabbed the second man with this knife.<br>6A. =
The car involved in the hit-and-run accident was a blue Ford.<br>=C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 The driver of a blue Ford hit a person and then drove off.<br>7A. This =
is a fascist idea.<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 This idea bears all the hallmarks of fa=
scism.<br>8A. Beethoven is better than Mozart.<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Beethoven&#=
39;s work exceeds that of Mozart in quality.<br>9A. That is a sexist movie.=
<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 This movie reeks of sexism.<br>10A. The fetus is a person=
.<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0A fetus becomes a person the moment the sperm ente=
rs the egg.</p><p>-- <br>Arnt Richard Johansen =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"http://arj.nvg.org/" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow=
" onmousedown=3D"this.href=3D&#39;http://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttp%3A%2F=
%2Farj.nvg.org%2F\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNHfffKVcWy66uspWIm=
qv1wig8l4kw&#39;;return true;" onclick=3D"this.href=3D&#39;http://www.googl=
e.com/url?q\x3dhttp%3A%2F%2Farj.nvg.org%2F\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x=
3dAFQjCNHfffKVcWy66uspWImqv1wig8l4kw&#39;;return true;">http://arj.nvg.org/=
</a><br>- Hvorfor snakker man engelsk p=EF=BF=BD Internet?<br>- Har du h=EF=
=BF=BDrt om minste felles nevner?</p><p><br>To unsubscribe from this list, =
send mail to <a href=3D"javascript:" target=3D"_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailt=
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ipt:&#39;;return true;" onclick=3D"this.href=3D&#39;javascript:&#39;;return=
 true;">lojban-li...@lojban.org</a><br>with the subject unsubscribe, or go =
to <a href=3D"http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollo=
w" onmousedown=3D"this.href=3D&#39;http://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttp%3A%2=
F%2Fwww.lojban.org%2Flsg2%2F\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNFPAEAC=
GQ-VP2ayfx0iOxKEs-z3ag&#39;;return true;" onclick=3D"this.href=3D&#39;http:=
//www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.lojban.org%2Flsg2%2F\x26sa\x3dD\=
x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNFPAEACGQ-VP2ayfx0iOxKEs-z3ag&#39;;return true;=
">http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/</a>, or if<br>you&#39;re really stuck, send m=
ail to <a href=3D"javascript:" target=3D"_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto=3D"c=
jBy3eP9F24J" rel=3D"nofollow" onmousedown=3D"this.href=3D&#39;javascript:&#=
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">secr...@lojban.org</a> for help.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p=
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