Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2018 11:40:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: xabju <la.xabju@gmail.com>
To: lojban <lojban@googlegroups.com>
Message-Id: <dd03e9fe-175c-4424-b176-7f4a0b962b75@googlegroups.com>
In-Reply-To: <2006283.xmpedjbSnQ@mooncat>
References: <a57523e7-5574-4bad-bdcc-423a08d820ff@googlegroups.com>
 <2006283.xmpedjbSnQ@mooncat>
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re=3A_=5Blojban=5D_Wrote_my_first_twenty_definitions_on_Jb?=
	=?UTF-8?Q?ovlaste_=E2=80=94_looking_to_have_them_reviewed=2E?=
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; 
	boundary="----=_Part_55981_1915323566.1528396811925"
Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com
X-Spam_score: -2.5
X-Spam_score_int: -24
X-Spam_bar: --

------=_Part_55981_1915323566.1528396811925
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; 
	boundary="----=_Part_55982_1425292970.1528396811925"

------=_Part_55982_1425292970.1528396811925
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Pierre,

Thanks for your feedback! *snitc* was a joke entry, which I somewhat regret=
=20
posting (it was late, my judgment wasn't good). I was thinking of the=20
much-hyped upcoming Death Grips album *Year of the Snitch*, but the word=20
could also be used when you need to call your English-speaking interlocutor=
=20
a snitch in a way they'll immediately understand.

I used *cunso* in *cunrafsi* because the note on sutysisku=20
<https://la-lojban.github.io/sutysisku/en/#sisku/cunso> has the gloss=20
"arbitrary", which is the sense I was going for. What would you suggest=20
instead?

Those glosses for *mudga'a* were absentminded mistakes. Thank you for=20
catching them. They now read as I think they should: "wooden cane", "wooden=
=20
pole", "wooden staff", "wooden stick". I've changed the x2 keyword to "wood=
=20
source; tree(s)". Is that alright?

Your point is taken on *UUTC*. My thinking was that it would be unfair to=
=20
force speakers of final-obstruent-devoicing languages to distinguish final=
=20
voiced consonants in pausa (as Lojban mandates), but I understand why many=
=20
may prefer *uudj*. The bigger question, for me, is whether it's right to=20
put monosyllabic cmevla in all caps. It looks very odd, but I presume that=
=20
most speakers stress these words when they say them aloud. What do you=20
think?

Also, what do you think of my most recent lujvo entries? Again, I'm not as=
=20
worried about the cmevla, unnecessary as some of them may be.

On Wednesday, June 6, 2018 at 4:43:15 PM UTC-4, Pierre Abbat wrote:
>
> On Tuesday, 5 June 2018 22.10.04 EDT xabju wrote:=20
> > Hello, all,=20
> >=20
> > I'm still a rank beginner at Lojban, but I noticed some lexical gaps an=
d=20
> > got to work filling them today. I've written twenty definitions=20
> > <http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/personal/Xabju?extra=3Ddefs> on Jbovlaste =
so=20
> > far, but they're generally far from perfect. I'm wondering if any of yo=
u=20
> > could look them over and help me revise them. I will defer to the=20
> experts.=20
> >=20
> > In particular, I'm concerned I haven't gotten the place structures=20
> right.=20
> > At the superficial level, I haven't been sure when to use simple=20
> variables=20
> > like "x1", "x2", etc., and when to use compound ones like "m2=3Dz3", et=
c.=20
> > (Actually, I don't quite have the vocabulary to say what the problems=
=20
> are.=20
> > What do you call an "x1" thingy? A variable? A place abbreviation? A=20
> slot=20
> > name?) The instructions on the site were not so clear to me. I'm also=
=20
> not=20
> > sure I've gotten the underlying semantics and syntax right for a few.=
=20
>
> I wouldn't use "cunso" for what you've called "cunrafsi", as they weren't=
=20
> assigned randomly. =20


> For "mudga'a", the glosses "pole" and "staff" don't specify wood. They=20
> need=20
> senses, as "pole" can also mean "jedji'o" (the poles of the Earth) and=20
> "staff"=20
> has other meanings, but cylindrical poles and staffs can be metal.=20
> Flagpoles,=20
> which are often metal, can be called staffs. Also, I wouldn't put "tree;=
=20
> plant" as a place keyword, because someone looking for "tree; plant" most=
=20
> likely wants "tricu". If a place keyword is likely to be the same for=20
> several=20
> words, you probably want to omit it.=20
>
> "UUTC" I would write "uudj". Several Slavic languages devoice final=20
> consonants,=20
> but as soon as you add a case ending with a vowel, they're no longer fina=
l=20
> and=20
> are voiced. Lojban already conflates "=C5=BC" and "=C5=BA"; there's no ne=
ed to=20
> further=20
> conflate them with "sz" and "=C5=9B" just because they're at the end of a=
 word.=20
>
> "snitc" needs explanation. Is snitch a disease, a game, or what?=20
>
> Pierre=20
> --=20
> The Black Garden on the Mountain is not on the Black Mountain.=20
>
>

--=20
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

------=_Part_55982_1425292970.1528396811925
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Pierre,<div><br></div><div>Thanks for your feedback! <i=
>snitc</i> was a joke entry, which I somewhat regret posting (it was late, =
my judgment wasn&#39;t good). I was thinking of the much-hyped upcoming Dea=
th Grips album=C2=A0<i>Year of the Snitch</i>, but the word could also be u=
sed when you need to call your English-speaking interlocutor a snitch in a =
way they&#39;ll immediately understand.<br></div><div><br></div><div>I used=
 <i>cunso</i>=C2=A0in=C2=A0<i>cunrafsi</i>=C2=A0because the note <a href=3D=
"https://la-lojban.github.io/sutysisku/en/#sisku/cunso">on sutysisku</a>=C2=
=A0has the gloss &quot;arbitrary&quot;, which is the sense I was going for.=
 What would you suggest instead?</div><div><br></div><div>Those glosses for=
 <i>mudga&#39;a</i>=C2=A0were absentminded mistakes. Thank you for catching=
 them. They now read as I think they should: &quot;wooden cane&quot;, &quot=
;wooden pole&quot;, &quot;wooden staff&quot;, &quot;wooden stick&quot;. I&#=
39;ve changed the x2 keyword to &quot;wood source; tree(s)&quot;. Is that a=
lright?</div><div><br></div><div>Your point is taken on <i>UUTC</i>. My thi=
nking was that it would be unfair to force speakers of final-obstruent-devo=
icing languages to distinguish final voiced consonants in pausa (as Lojban =
mandates), but I understand why many may prefer <i>uudj</i>. The bigger que=
stion, for me, is whether it&#39;s right to put monosyllabic cmevla in all =
caps. It looks very odd, but I presume that most speakers stress these word=
s when they say them aloud. What do you think?</div><div><br></div><div>Als=
o, what do you think of my most recent lujvo entries? Again, I&#39;m not as=
 worried about the cmevla, unnecessary as some of them may be.</div><br>On =
Wednesday, June 6, 2018 at 4:43:15 PM UTC-4, Pierre Abbat wrote:<blockquote=
 class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1=
px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">On Tuesday, 5 June 2018 22.10.04 EDT xabj=
u wrote:
<br>&gt; Hello, all,
<br>&gt;=20
<br>&gt; I&#39;m still a rank beginner at Lojban, but I noticed some lexica=
l gaps and
<br>&gt; got to work filling them today. I&#39;ve written twenty definition=
s
<br>&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/personal/Xabju?extra=3D=
defs" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" onmousedown=3D"this.href=3D&#39;ht=
tp://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttp%3A%2F%2Fjbovlaste.lojban.org%2Fpersonal%2=
FXabju%3Fextra%3Ddefs\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNGx6brsPiZoLyp=
WG4KV1Y70GD-1AA&#39;;return true;" onclick=3D"this.href=3D&#39;http://www.g=
oogle.com/url?q\x3dhttp%3A%2F%2Fjbovlaste.lojban.org%2Fpersonal%2FXabju%3Fe=
xtra%3Ddefs\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNGx6brsPiZoLypWG4KV1Y70G=
D-1AA&#39;;return true;">http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/<wbr>personal/Xabju?ex=
tra=3Ddefs</a>&gt; on Jbovlaste so
<br>&gt; far, but they&#39;re generally far from perfect. I&#39;m wondering=
 if any of you
<br>&gt; could look them over and help me revise them. I will defer to the =
experts.
<br>&gt;=20
<br>&gt; In particular, I&#39;m concerned I haven&#39;t gotten the place st=
ructures right.
<br>&gt; At the superficial level, I haven&#39;t been sure when to use simp=
le variables
<br>&gt; like &quot;x1&quot;, &quot;x2&quot;, etc., and when to use compoun=
d ones like &quot;m2=3Dz3&quot;, etc.
<br>&gt; (Actually, I don&#39;t quite have the vocabulary to say what the p=
roblems are.
<br>&gt; What do you call an &quot;x1&quot; thingy? A variable? A place abb=
reviation? A slot
<br>&gt; name?) The instructions on the site were not so clear to me. I&#39=
;m also not
<br>&gt; sure I&#39;ve gotten the underlying semantics and syntax right for=
 a few.
<br>
<br>I wouldn&#39;t use &quot;cunso&quot; for what you&#39;ve called &quot;c=
unrafsi&quot;, as they weren&#39;t=20
<br>assigned randomly.=C2=A0=C2=A0</blockquote><blockquote class=3D"gmail_q=
uote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;pad=
ding-left: 1ex;">
<br>For &quot;mudga&#39;a&quot;, the glosses &quot;pole&quot; and &quot;sta=
ff&quot; don&#39;t specify wood. They need=20
<br>senses, as &quot;pole&quot; can also mean &quot;jedji&#39;o&quot; (the =
poles of the Earth) and &quot;staff&quot;=20
<br>has other meanings, but cylindrical poles and staffs can be metal. Flag=
poles,=20
<br>which are often metal, can be called staffs. Also, I wouldn&#39;t put &=
quot;tree;=20
<br>plant&quot; as a place keyword, because someone looking for &quot;tree;=
 plant&quot; most=20
<br>likely wants &quot;tricu&quot;. If a place keyword is likely to be the =
same for several=20
<br>words, you probably want to omit it.
<br>
<br>&quot;UUTC&quot; I would write &quot;uudj&quot;. Several Slavic languag=
es devoice final consonants,=20
<br>but as soon as you add a case ending with a vowel, they&#39;re no longe=
r final and=20
<br>are voiced. Lojban already conflates &quot;=C5=BC&quot; and &quot;=C5=
=BA&quot;; there&#39;s no need to further=20
<br>conflate them with &quot;sz&quot; and &quot;=C5=9B&quot; just because t=
hey&#39;re at the end of a word.
<br>
<br>&quot;snitc&quot; needs explanation. Is snitch a disease, a game, or wh=
at?
<br>
<br>Pierre
<br>--=20
<br>The Black Garden on the Mountain is not on the Black Mountain.
<br>
<br></blockquote></div>

<p></p>

-- <br />
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &=
quot;lojban&quot; group.<br />
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to <a href=3D"mailto:lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com">lojban+unsub=
scribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<br />
To post to this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:lojban@googlegroups.=
com">lojban@googlegroups.com</a>.<br />
Visit this group at <a href=3D"https://groups.google.com/group/lojban">http=
s://groups.google.com/group/lojban</a>.<br />
For more options, visit <a href=3D"https://groups.google.com/d/optout">http=
s://groups.google.com/d/optout</a>.<br />

------=_Part_55982_1425292970.1528396811925--

------=_Part_55981_1915323566.1528396811925--