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From: uakci <ciuak.prog@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2019 13:55:40 +0200
Message-ID: <CACtk4+A8K1RYTgH2yvKLo75kCvMxKnXBxR9w3pWGye6-aw4t2g@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban] x2 of remna
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I=E2=80=99m pretty sure this is not how all this works. If a place isn=E2=
=80=99t invoked,
it doesn=E2=80=99t participate in the quantification; therefore, =C2=ABso=
=E2=80=99i cakcinki cu
xabju lo purdi=C2=BB has *unary* =C2=ABcakcinki=C2=BB, so the correct meani=
ng =E2=80=93 =E2=80=98there are
many beetles living in the garden.=E2=80=99

la tersmu agrees:
  purdi(c0); (so'i)x1:(cakcinki(_)). zvati(x1,c0)

Therefore, the sumti phrase =C2=ABso=E2=80=99i cakcinki=C2=BB means =C2=ABs=
o=E2=80=99i poi=E2=80=99i ke=E2=80=99a su=E2=80=99o da
cakcinki=C2=BB rather than =C2=ABpa da zo=E2=80=99u=E2=80=A6 so=E2=80=99i c=
akcinki be da=C2=BB.

Please correct me if I=E2=80=99m wrong.

=E2=80=94 mi=E2=80=99e la uakci

On Fri, 21 Jun 2019 at 1:44 PM, Pierre Abbat <phma@bezitopo.org> wrote:

> On Thursday, 20 June 2019 07.06.39 EDT mezohe wrote:
> > > ! so'i cakcinki cu xabju lo purdi
> >
> > doesn't work because it expands to
> >
> > > ! so'i cakcinki be zo'e cu xabju lo purdi [be zo'e bei zo'e]
> >
> > zo'e is a constant; so'i can't scope over it. All this can mean is "man=
y
> > beetles of the obvious species live in the garden"; nothing is said
> > about beetles of other species. And there does have to be a single
> > species zo'e refers to, since having it refer to multiple ones would sa=
y
> > for *each* beetle that it's a member of all the species.
>
> Where do you get the idea that zo'e is a constant? As I understand it, {m=
i
> viska ci cakcinki} is equally true if I see three Japanese beetles (of
> which
> there are many on the blackberry plants) or if I see a cocuyo, a scarab,
> and a
> weevil. Anyway, x2 of {cakcinki} can be {la'o .ly. Coleoptera .ly.}, whic=
h
> is
> equivalent to {lo'e se cakcinki}.
>
> Pierre
> --
> Lanthanidia deliciosa: What the kiwifruit would be
> if it weren't so radioactive.
>
>
>
> --
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<div><div><div dir=3D"auto">I=E2=80=99m pretty sure this is not how all thi=
s works. If a place isn=E2=80=99t invoked, it doesn=E2=80=99t participate i=
n the quantification; therefore, =C2=ABso=E2=80=99i cakcinki cu xabju lo pu=
rdi=C2=BB has *unary* =C2=ABcakcinki=C2=BB, so the correct meaning =E2=80=
=93 =E2=80=98there are many beetles living in the garden.=E2=80=99=C2=A0</d=
iv></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">la tersmu agrees:</d=
iv><div dir=3D"auto">=C2=A0 purdi(c0); (so&#39;i)x1:(cakcinki(_)). zvati(x1=
,c0)</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Therefore, the sumt=
i phrase =C2=ABso=E2=80=99i cakcinki=C2=BB means =C2=ABso=E2=80=99i poi=E2=
=80=99i ke=E2=80=99a su=E2=80=99o da cakcinki=C2=BB rather than =C2=ABpa da=
 zo=E2=80=99u=E2=80=A6 so=E2=80=99i cakcinki be da=C2=BB.</div><div dir=3D"=
auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Please correct me if I=E2=80=99m wrong.</=
div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">=E2=80=94 mi=E2=80=99e la=
 uakci</div></div><div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div><div class=3D"gmail=
_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, 21 Jun 2019 at 1:44 P=
M, Pierre Abbat &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:phma@bezitopo.org" target=3D"_blank">=
phma@bezitopo.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote"=
 style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">On=
 Thursday, 20 June 2019 07.06.39 EDT mezohe wrote:<br>
&gt; &gt; ! so&#39;i cakcinki cu xabju lo purdi<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; doesn&#39;t work because it expands to<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; &gt; ! so&#39;i cakcinki be zo&#39;e cu xabju lo purdi [be zo&#39;e be=
i zo&#39;e]<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; zo&#39;e is a constant; so&#39;i can&#39;t scope over it. All this can=
 mean is &quot;many<br>
&gt; beetles of the obvious species live in the garden&quot;; nothing is sa=
id<br>
&gt; about beetles of other species. And there does have to be a single<br>
&gt; species zo&#39;e refers to, since having it refer to multiple ones wou=
ld say<br>
&gt; for *each* beetle that it&#39;s a member of all the species.<br>
<br>
Where do you get the idea that zo&#39;e is a constant? As I understand it, =
{mi <br>
viska ci cakcinki} is equally true if I see three Japanese beetles (of whic=
h <br>
there are many on the blackberry plants) or if I see a cocuyo, a scarab, an=
d a <br>
weevil. Anyway, x2 of {cakcinki} can be {la&#39;o .ly. Coleoptera .ly.}, wh=
ich is <br>
equivalent to {lo&#39;e se cakcinki}.<br>
<br>
Pierre<br>
-- <br>
Lanthanidia deliciosa: What the kiwifruit would be<br>
if it weren&#39;t so radioactive.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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</blockquote></div></div>
</div>

<p></p>

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