Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 00:12:44 -0700 (PDT)
From: Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>
To: lojban <lojban@googlegroups.com>
Message-Id: <35cc2ce0-a33a-4b4e-ac7c-1cf01f99a33c@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [lojban] Officially updating "Complete Lojban Language" grammar book.
 An official LLG proposal passed. Your help needed.
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LLG needs your feedback on updating the reference grammar of Lojban. If you 
are a fluent speaker of Lojban or a member of LLG please share your 
feedback (in case you are a fluent speaker please reply in Lojban + 
optionally in English). Notice: your publicly visible ID, nickname, email 
will be recorded for future reference by LLG.

The document 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TjgmRNRraQ_W76Eh9XJfstCOaAunb7AqdjlTisxIaiw/edit# 
contains a list of proposed changes. Text with green background denotes 
additions to the text, text with red background denotes deletions from the 
text.

If you are not a fluent speaker still please have a look at the document 
and share your thoughts.

Here is the full text of the proposal passed at the meeting of the Logical 
Language Group and published 
at https://framateam.org/signup_user_complete/?id=17b4ir6u6by6px693dm8kmy7yw 
in "LLG Members Meeting 2018" channel:
----
Veto mode of updating CLL:
Premises: CLL should be updated quickly. Many mistypes were recorded 15 
years ago or more. 2.5 years ago we were technically ready to merge them 
into the text of CLL. But still no updates to CLL
Proposed solution in short: a one-time job with most hard work delegated to 
Gleki, with minimum possible effort from anyone else. Gleki asks LLG voting 
members, John W. Cowan, the author of the first edition of CLL, and fluent 
speakers if a collection of mistypes is okay or not and after getting the 
feedback compiles a new version of CLL and presents it to LLG for 
verification and approval.
Proposed solution in detail:
the document 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TjgmRNRraQ_W76Eh9XJfstCOaAunb7AqdjlTisxIaiw/edit# 
contains a list of proposed changes. Text with green background  denotes 
additions to the text, text with red background denotes deletions from the 
text.

Any voting member of LLG or John W. Cowan, the author of the first edition 
of CLL, and any fluent speaker of Lojban can veto any of these changes by 
naming each of vetoed changes individually. In case a fluent speaker vetoes 
a change this vetoing must be done in Lojban and optionally in English by 
providing reasons why this change should not be applied. In case a voting 
member of LLG or John W. Cowan vetoes a change the member or John W. Cowan 
must provide in English their reasons why this change should not be 
applied. The replier must be informed beforehand that their replies with 
their publicly visible IDs, names, nicknames will be publicly logged by LLG 
for future reference.
Who is "fluent speaker of Lojban"? Any person who can speak grammatically 
correct Lojban and who can be understood by any LLG member who is a fluent 
speaker too. Veto mode minimizes possible scenarios when such a fluent 
speaker disagrees with a change to CLL but some malicious person pretends 
that he/she/ze/they don't understand that a veto was made. In  such cases 
any other LLG member or fluent speaker can translate the veto or even veto 
a change themselves instead of that person.

Changes are either vetoed or not. No change to the document is allowed 
(which means in future new documents may appear for amended changes but for 
this one-time job the document is final)
LLG waits for 2 months since the adoption of this proposal for any veto 
votes.
In 2 months in case at least one non-vetoed change is left LLG announces 
that changes are ready to be merged and delegates Gleki the right to merge 
exactly non-vetoed changes with exactly the changes provided in the 
document into CLL version 1.1 thus turning it into CLL version 1.2, and put 
a duty on Gleki to produce within one month pdf, epub,mobi, html versions 
of CLL 1.2 and within 6 months to produce (accepting help from Robin Lee 
Powell if provided) a paper version of CLL 1.2 using either existing LLG 
account on Amazon or creating a new account but providing the Treasurer and 
the President with all the credentials to such new Amazon account.
Once Gleki produces a new electronic version of CLL 1.2 he is obliged to 
immediately present it to LLG for official approval.
LLG approves or rejects the resulting electronic candidate CLL versions.
Approving the paper version of CLL 1.2 is out of the scope of this proposal 
(should physical copies of CLL 1.2 be sent to all LLG members? Highly 
unlikely and hasn't been done ever as far as i know)

le ve cusku (means of transferring veto replies): in case of LLG member 
this chat is okay. In case of fluent Lojban speakers any publicly logged 
and accessible to any LLG member means of communication is okay. Among 
those are:

#lojban, #ckule,#jbosnu Freenode IRC channels.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/lojban/
this Framateam Mattermost channel
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/lojban
any page of mw.lojban.org
Non-formal procedures: anyone is encouraged to publish this proposal 
wherever allowed once this proposal passes.

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>LLG needs your feedback on updating the reference gra=
mmar of Lojban. If you are a fluent speaker of Lojban or a member of LLG pl=
ease share your feedback (in case you are a fluent speaker please reply in =
Lojban + optionally in English). Notice: your publicly visible ID, nickname=
, email will be recorded for future reference by LLG.</div><div><br></div><=
div><div>The document https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TjgmRNRraQ_W76Eh9=
XJfstCOaAunb7AqdjlTisxIaiw/edit# contains a list of proposed changes. Text =
with green background denotes additions to the text, text with red backgrou=
nd denotes deletions from the text.</div><div><br></div></div><div>If you a=
re not a fluent speaker still please have a look at the document and share =
your thoughts.</div><div><br></div>Here is the full text of the proposal pa=
ssed at the meeting of the Logical Language Group and published at=C2=A0htt=
ps://framateam.org/signup_user_complete/?id=3D17b4ir6u6by6px693dm8kmy7yw in=
 &quot;LLG Members Meeting 2018&quot; channel:<div>----</div><div><div>Veto=
 mode of updating CLL:</div><div>Premises: CLL should be updated quickly. M=
any mistypes were recorded 15 years ago or more. 2.5 years ago we were tech=
nically ready to merge them into the text of CLL. But still no updates to C=
LL</div><div>Proposed solution in short: a one-time job with most hard work=
 delegated to Gleki, with minimum possible effort from anyone else. Gleki a=
sks LLG voting members, John W. Cowan, the author of the first edition of C=
LL, and fluent speakers if a collection of mistypes is okay or not and afte=
r getting the feedback compiles a new version of CLL and presents it to LLG=
 for verification and approval.</div><div>Proposed solution in detail:</div=
><div>the document https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TjgmRNRraQ_W76Eh9XJf=
stCOaAunb7AqdjlTisxIaiw/edit# contains a list of proposed changes. Text wit=
h green background=C2=A0 denotes additions to the text, text with red backg=
round denotes deletions from the text.</div><div><br></div><div>Any voting =
member of LLG or John W. Cowan, the author of the first edition of CLL, and=
 any fluent speaker of Lojban can veto any of these changes by naming each =
of vetoed changes individually. In case a fluent speaker vetoes a change th=
is vetoing must be done in Lojban and optionally in English by providing re=
asons why this change should not be applied. In case a voting member of LLG=
 or John W. Cowan vetoes a change the member or John W. Cowan must provide =
in English their reasons why this change should not be applied. The replier=
 must be informed beforehand that their replies with their publicly visible=
 IDs, names, nicknames will be publicly logged by LLG for future reference.=
</div><div>Who is &quot;fluent speaker of Lojban&quot;? Any person who can =
speak grammatically correct Lojban and who can be understood by any LLG mem=
ber who is a fluent speaker too. Veto mode minimizes possible scenarios whe=
n such a fluent speaker disagrees with a change to CLL but some malicious p=
erson pretends that he/she/ze/they don&#39;t understand that a veto was mad=
e. In=C2=A0 such cases any other LLG member or fluent speaker can translate=
 the veto or even veto a change themselves instead of that person.</div><di=
v><br></div><div>Changes are either vetoed or not. No change to the documen=
t is allowed (which means in future new documents may appear for amended ch=
anges but for this one-time job the document is final)</div><div>LLG waits =
for 2 months since the adoption of this proposal for any veto votes.</div><=
div>In 2 months in case at least one non-vetoed change is left LLG announce=
s that changes are ready to be merged and delegates Gleki the right to merg=
e exactly non-vetoed changes with exactly the changes provided in the docum=
ent into CLL version 1.1 thus turning it into CLL version 1.2, and put a du=
ty on Gleki to produce within one month pdf, epub,mobi, html versions of CL=
L 1.2 and within 6 months to produce (accepting help from Robin Lee Powell =
if provided) a paper version of CLL 1.2 using either existing LLG account o=
n Amazon or creating a new account but providing the Treasurer and the Pres=
ident with all the credentials to such new Amazon account.</div><div>Once G=
leki produces a new electronic version of CLL 1.2 he is obliged to immediat=
ely present it to LLG for official approval.</div><div>LLG approves or reje=
cts the resulting electronic candidate CLL versions.</div><div>Approving th=
e paper version of CLL 1.2 is out of the scope of this proposal (should phy=
sical copies of CLL 1.2 be sent to all LLG members? Highly unlikely and has=
n&#39;t been done ever as far as i know)</div><div><br></div><div>le ve cus=
ku (means of transferring veto replies): in case of LLG member this chat is=
 okay. In case of fluent Lojban speakers any publicly logged and accessible=
 to any LLG member means of communication is okay. Among those are:</div><d=
iv><br></div><div>#lojban, #ckule,#jbosnu Freenode IRC channels.</div><div>=
https://www.facebook.com/groups/lojban/</div><div>this Framateam Mattermost=
 channel</div><div>https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/lojban</div><div=
>any page of mw.lojban.org</div><div>Non-formal procedures: anyone is encou=
raged to publish this proposal wherever allowed once this proposal passes.<=
/div></div></div>

<p></p>

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