Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2020 13:12:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>
To: lojban <lojban@googlegroups.com>
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Subject: Re: [lojban] Why Lojban fails
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Em s=C3=A1bado, 11 de abril de 2020 21:39:56 UTC+3, uakci escreveu:
>
> I would=E2=80=99ve agreed, but neither logic nor linguistics are alchemy.
>

But spoken fopl or swh might be.
(Controlled parsable semantically unambiguous English is a thing anyway and=
=20
is in use unlike Lojban)
=20

> Lojban has succeeded as a language that people use to communicate, but as=
=20
> a project, it fails to meet the requirements as it stands now. From a=20
> bird=E2=80=99s-eye view, this might not be so apparent, but then you real=
ize that=20
> so many little things are left undecided, like {ce=E2=80=99u} filling, ex=
act=20
> semantics of FIhO, some grammatical quirks like {.y bu} and {zo .y}, and=
=20
> the ever-present issue of overengineering=E2=80=A6
>
> You could say that this is not a problem for Lojban, and I=E2=80=99d agre=
e: not=20
> for Lojban as a language (or languages, since Lojban dialects tend to sol=
ve=20
> these matters more elegantly and therefore amount to an advancement, not =
a=20
> hindrance). But the overall project=E2=80=99s criteria have not yet been =
met, and=20
> thus it is still ongoing, which raises the question of why one should car=
e=20
> to believe in its completion provided that it=E2=80=99s over 30 years sin=
ce it was=20
> founded. I, for one, prefer to stake my bets on a loglang project whose=
=20
> development history =E2=80=94 track record =E2=80=94 and leadership do no=
t foretell its=20
> eventual abandonment.
>
> =E2=80=94 M=E1=BB=89 H=E1=BB=8Fash=C4=AB j=C3=AD ka
>
> On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 at 19:54, Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>=
=20
> wrote:
>
>> Alchemists pursued what appeared to be nonexistent. Still they found a=
=20
>> lot of gems during their research.
>>
>> So whatever goals Loglan or Lojban had in past it's fine in present as i=
t=20
>> is.
>>
>> --=20
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group=
s=20
>> "lojban" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send a=
n=20
>> email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit=20
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/lojban/c29378ec-fcee-40c8-8c42-b0a807d=
85ddf%40googlegroups.com
>> .
>>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><br>Em s=C3=A1bado, 11 de abril de 2020 21:39:56 UTC+3=
, uakci  escreveu:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;marg=
in-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div><div di=
r=3D"auto">I would=E2=80=99ve agreed, but neither logic nor linguistics are=
 alchemy.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>But spoken fopl or sw=
h might be.</div><div>(Controlled parsable semantically unambiguous English=
 is a thing anyway and is in use unlike Lojban)</div><div>=C2=A0<br></div><=
blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;bord=
er-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div><div dir=3D"auto"> Lojban =
has succeeded as a language that people use to communicate, but as a projec=
t, it fails to meet the requirements as it stands now. From a bird=E2=80=99=
s-eye view, this might not be so apparent, but then you realize that so man=
y little things are left undecided, like {ce=E2=80=99u} filling, exact sema=
ntics of FIhO, some grammatical quirks like {.y bu} and {zo .y}, and the ev=
er-present issue of overengineering=E2=80=A6</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></d=
iv><div dir=3D"auto">You could say that this is not a problem for Lojban, a=
nd I=E2=80=99d agree: not for Lojban as a language (or languages, since Loj=
ban dialects tend to solve these matters more elegantly and therefore amoun=
t to an advancement, not a hindrance). But the overall project=E2=80=99s cr=
iteria have not yet been met, and thus it is still ongoing, which raises th=
e question of why one should care to believe in its completion provided tha=
t it=E2=80=99s over 30 years since it was founded. I, for one, prefer to st=
ake my bets on a loglang project whose development history =E2=80=94 track =
record =E2=80=94 and leadership do not foretell its eventual abandonment.</=
div></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">=E2=80=94 M=E1=BB=
=89 H=E1=BB=8Fash=C4=AB j=C3=AD ka</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div di=
r=3D"auto">On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 at 19:54, Gleki Arxokuna &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" onmousedo=
wn=3D"this.href=3D&#39;mailto:gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com&#39;;return true;"=
 onclick=3D"this.href=3D&#39;mailto:gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com&#39;;return =
true;">gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><div><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8=
ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Alchemists pursued what app=
eared to be nonexistent. Still they found a lot of gems during their resear=
ch.<br>
<br>
So whatever goals Loglan or Lojban had in past it&#39;s fine in present as =
it is.<br>
<br>
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</blockquote></div></div>
</blockquote></div>

<p></p>

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