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Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2020 12:46:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>
To: lojban <lojban@googlegroups.com>
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Subject: [lojban] Re: Where is the latest/official PEG grammar?
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Em sexta-feira, 17 de abril de 2020 18:41:05 UTC+3, 
scope845hlang343jbo@icebubble.org escreveu:
>
> Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> writes: 
>
> >> > Transformation doesn't necessarily imply equivalence. 
> >> 
> >> No, but it would render the PEG in a form which could be *compared* to 
> >> the YACC.  If you cut-out the morphology rules, 
> > 
> > 
> > You need to cut out much more. Compare how many lines the BNF grammar 
> has. 
> > One can learn it by heart. Now compare to camxes grammars. 
>
> Did you read what I wrote?  I'm not talking about MEMORIZING the 
> grammar.  I'm proposing comparison of the formal grammar rules (however 
> many thousands of lines they may be) derived from the YACC and PEG, 
> respectively, to see if they parse equivalent languages.  That would 
> prove the equivalence of the PEG to the YACC. 
>

camxes contains morphology, chapter 21 of the CLL doesnt. camxes has 
multiple rules from BPFK (like handling magic words), chapter 21 doesn't.

If you mean replacing priority choice operator with alternation then camxes 
becomes ambiguous ( more than one parse tree for almost any worthwhile 
sentence).
 

>
> > Because PEG formalism doesn't allow checking for ambiguities. E.g. PEG 
> is 
> > unambiguous even if you add to it rules and subrules that would never 
> > match. 
> > 
> > But seriously PEG/CFG are not powerful enough even by BPFK standards 
> (see 
> > BPFK pages in the wiki) 
>
> None of what you have writen here makes any sense to me.  What do you 
> mean? 
>

PEG is not the perfect parser by bpfk  standards. Scope of da/BAI/bridi is 
not handled, fuhe is not handled. By CLL standards internal grammar of UI 
is not handled.

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><br>Em sexta-feira, 17 de abril de 2020 18:41:05 UTC+3=
, scope845hlang343jbo@icebubble.org  escreveu:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padd=
ing-left: 1ex;">Gleki Arxokuna &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gleki.is.my.name@gmail=
.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" onmousedown=3D"this.href=3D&#39;ma=
ilto:gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com&#39;;return true;" onclick=3D"this.href=3D&=
#39;mailto:gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com&#39;;return true;">gleki.is.my.name@g=
mail.com</a>&gt; writes:
<br>
<br>&gt;&gt; &gt; Transformation doesn&#39;t necessarily imply equivalence.=
=20
<br>&gt;&gt;
<br>&gt;&gt; No, but it would render the PEG in a form which could be *comp=
ared* to=20
<br>&gt;&gt; the YACC. =C2=A0If you cut-out the morphology rules,
<br>&gt;
<br>&gt;
<br>&gt; You need to cut out much more. Compare how many lines the BNF gram=
mar has.=20
<br>&gt; One can learn it by heart. Now compare to camxes grammars.=20
<br>
<br>Did you read what I wrote? =C2=A0I&#39;m not talking about MEMORIZING t=
he
<br>grammar. =C2=A0I&#39;m proposing comparison of the formal grammar rules=
 (however
<br>many thousands of lines they may be) derived from the YACC and PEG,
<br>respectively, to see if they parse equivalent languages. =C2=A0That wou=
ld
<br>prove the equivalence of the PEG to the YACC.
<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>camxes contains morphology, chapter 21=
 of the CLL doesnt. camxes has multiple rules from BPFK (like handling magi=
c words), chapter 21 doesn&#39;t.</div><div><br></div><div>If you mean repl=
acing priority choice operator with alternation then camxes becomes ambiguo=
us ( more than one parse tree for almost any worthwhile sentence).</div><di=
v>=C2=A0<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;marg=
in-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">
<br>&gt; Because PEG formalism doesn&#39;t allow checking for ambiguities. =
E.g. PEG is=20
<br>&gt; unambiguous even if you add to it rules and subrules that would ne=
ver=20
<br>&gt; match.=20
<br>&gt;
<br>&gt; But seriously PEG/CFG are not powerful enough even by BPFK standar=
ds (see=20
<br>&gt; BPFK pages in the wiki)
<br>
<br>None of what you have writen here makes any sense to me. =C2=A0What do =
you
<br>mean?
<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>PEG is not the perfect parser by bpfk=
=C2=A0 standards. Scope of da/BAI/bridi is not handled, fuhe is not handled=
. By CLL standards internal grammar of UI is not handled.</div></div>

<p></p>

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