Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2020 12:42:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jmive <mcdonohe@mail.gvsu.edu>
To: lojban <lojban@googlegroups.com>
Message-Id: <8947d7eb-5621-4b69-b047-ed3da665fcafo@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [lojban] Gismu in need of place structure extensions
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What gismu feel like they have incomplete place structures?

The lujvo {ci'erkei} and {kelci'e} feel like they only exist because 
{kelci} is missing a spot about what game is being played and/or its rules. 
The primary sense of the word seems to be about unstructured play, in the 
sense that a child plays with toys. But even this sense could be improved 
by a place for the game that's being played, as unstructured play can form 
unstructured games, usually of an imaginative sort, such as "cops and 
robbers" or "house".

Proposed alternative definition:

> x1 plays with toy/plaything/gamepiece x2 in game x3
>
With this, {kelci} becomes like a recreational (rather than productive) 
version of {pilno}.

Alterations to existing lujvo semantics: {nunkei} becomes "play session" or 
a game in the sense meaning "match" -- the thing you're referring to when 
you say "good game". {samselkei} might mean a gaming console (such that 
s1=k2); {dracyselkei} might mean a miniature, die, or LARP prop. I would 
argue that these are closer to the literal meanings of those lujvo to begin 
with, since {selkei} is defined as "toy", not "game".

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<div dir=3D"ltr">What gismu feel like they have incomplete place structures=
?<br><br>The lujvo {ci&#39;erkei} and {kelci&#39;e} feel like they only exi=
st because {kelci} is missing a spot about what game is being played and/or=
 its rules. The primary sense of the word seems to be about unstructured pl=
ay, in the sense that a child plays with toys. But even this sense could be=
 improved by a place for the game that&#39;s being played, as unstructured =
play can form unstructured games, usually of an imaginative sort, such as &=
quot;cops and robbers&quot; or &quot;house&quot;.<br><br>Proposed alternati=
ve definition:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0px 0p=
x 0px 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"=
>x1 plays with toy/plaything/gamepiece x2 in game x3<br></blockquote><div>W=
ith this, {kelci} becomes like a recreational (rather than productive) vers=
ion of {pilno}.<br><br></div><div>Alterations to existing lujvo semantics: =
{nunkei} becomes &quot;play session&quot; or a game in the sense meaning &q=
uot;match&quot; -- the thing you&#39;re referring to when you say &quot;goo=
d game&quot;. {samselkei} might mean a gaming console (such that s1=3Dk2); =
{dracyselkei} might mean a miniature, die, or LARP prop. I would argue that=
 these are closer to the literal meanings of those lujvo to begin with, sin=
ce {selkei} is defined as &quot;toy&quot;, not &quot;game&quot;.<br></div><=
/div>

<p></p>

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