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From: Ilmen <ilmen.pokebip@gmail.com>
Subject: [lojban] {zo'e}
Message-ID: <bad4709c-1c05-d4f7-f56c-78089950fa4f@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2020 23:07:48 +0100
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Hello everybody,

I would like to ask you clarifications on the meaning of the cmavo=20
{zo'e}, which is defined in the CLL at=20
https://lojban.github.io/cll/7/7/index.html=20
<https://lojban.github.io/cll/7/7/index.html> as meaning =E2=80=9Cthe obvio=
us=20
value=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9Cwhatever I want it to mean but haven=E2=80=99t bot=
hered to figure out,=20
or figure out how to express=E2=80=9D.

Let's consider the following three example sentences:

=E2=80=A2 [A] {mi tirna zo'e}
=E2=80=A2 [B] {mi tirna su'o da}
=E2=80=A2 [C] {(da'o) mi tirna ko'a} (usage of a constant {ko'a} which hasn=
't=20
been assigned a value explicitly earlier)

How does [A] semantically differ from [B] and [C]? (I suspect that the=20
two latters ultimately mean the same thing.)
How [A] should be represented in logical notation?
{zo'e} cannot be a constant as it changes its referent(s) on each=20
occurrence.

The gloss =E2=80=9Cthe obvious value=E2=80=9D given in the CLL may lead one=
 to consider=20
=E2=80=9Cyou-know-what=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9Csomething which you should be a=
ble to identify=20
easily=E2=80=9D as a possible meaning for {zo'e}, although the second wordi=
ng=20
=E2=80=9Cwhatever I want it to mean but haven=E2=80=99t bothered to figure =
out, or=20
figure out how to express=E2=80=9D doesn't seem to support it.
That second wording doesn't imply that the addressee should be able to=20
identify the referents of {zo'e}, but however it seems to imply that the=20
speaker has a more precise idea on the referents than with a plain {su'o=20
da}, but didn't manage or bother to lay out a more detailed description.=20
Therefore, {su'o co'e} (=E2=80=9Csome thing(s) satisfying the contextually=
=20
salient predicate=E2=80=9D) or =E2=80=9Csome certain thing(s) (known by the=
 speaker but=20
not necessarily by the listener)=E2=80=9D may also qualify as candidate=20
definitions for {zo'e}.

What in your opinion should be a more precise definition of {zo'e}?

=E2=80=94mu'o mi'e la .ilmen.

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