Envelope-to: lojban-list-archive@lojban.org
Delivery-date: Fri, 01 Jan 2021 20:16:24 -0800
Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of scope845hlang343jbo@icebubble.org designates 2607:f2f8:a1d8::b19:0:f0b as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f2f8:a1d8::b19:0:f0b;
From: scope845hlang343jbo@icebubble.org
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Subject: [lojban] Re: {zo'e}
References: <bad4709c-1c05-d4f7-f56c-78089950fa4f@gmail.com>
	<2914956.R1SSoXq267@puma>
	<CAKOEKkRpASKLMuhNdHnFwWUhBX+nw2tBWO=Pt9-Ny6zyaio_pw@mail.gmail.com>
	<3057250.gkAYTAapcS@puma> <86v9djg26p.fsf@cmarib.ramside>
	<e0a16e64-8f52-e576-af76-f895ff5ab220@gmail.com>
	<517f4985-4f82-495b-9b07-e03210186403n@googlegroups.com>
Date: Fri, 01 Jan 2021 23:07:54 +0000
In-Reply-To: <517f4985-4f82-495b-9b07-e03210186403n@googlegroups.com> (Corbin
	Simpson's message of "Tue, 29 Dec 2020 23:29:06 -0800 (PST)")
Message-ID: <86wnwwcl2t.fsf@cmarib.ramside>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com
X-Spam_score: -2.8
X-Spam_score_int: -27
X-Spam_bar: --

Corbin Simpson <mostawesomedude@gmail.com> writes:

> You've buried the lede somewhat. There probably *aren't* context-free 
> formal definitions possible for {zo'e}, because speakers usually intend 
> either the semantics of {zi'o} (pretend that the place doesn't exist) or 
> {su'o da} (something fills the place but it is irrelevant; it does 
> logically exist, though!) The former is fulfilled when zero or more objects 
> match, but the latter requires at least one object to match.
>
> As a basic example, in the utterance {mi vecnu zo'e}, am I asserting that 
> at least one sale takes place? (Ignoring temporal issues.)

I think just about all of that is wrong.  {zo'e} can never mean {zi'o}
but {zo'e} can, in certain contexts, mean {noda}.  If you and I are in a
brightly-lit room when the power goes out and it's suddenly plunged into
pitch-black darkness, I might reasonably utter the observative:

  viska

meaning, in that context, "I can't see anything!", {mi viska noda}.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/lojban/86wnwwcl2t.fsf%40cmarib.ramside.