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Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: "The beautiful little dancer" in Lojban
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You can also work ninmu/nanmu or fetsi/nakni into the the description=20
itself and not use a relative clause as gleki has done below.

See, the thing is, Lojban isn't like German and French and such. There's=20
no grammatical "gender" in the usual sense.=C2=A0 If you want to say=20
something is male, *say* it's male.=C2=A0 If you want to say it's female,=
=20
*say* it's female.=C2=A0 Same with number.=C2=A0 In the example below, glek=
i's=20
translations say "the *one* small-and-beautiful dancer" (that's what=20
"pa" means.)=C2=A0 Without "pa", it would almost surely be understood the=
=20
same... unless the context made a plural understanding more likely.=C2=A0=
=20
Number isn't marked, nor is gender... Nor is species, even.=C2=A0 If you ne=
ed=20
to specify the dancer is human, you'll have to say so.=C2=A0 (This isn't=20
actually different than English, though.=C2=A0 Anakin Skywalker and Senator=
=20
Palpatine were watching Mon Cala "dancers" while they discussed the=20
health-care benefits of the Dark Side.)

I think you won't find the kind of markers you're looking for in Lojban,=20
unless your range is broader than I'm understanding.

~mark

On 12/28/22 13:24, gleki.is...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
> Le mercredi 28 d=C3=A9cembre 2022 =C3=A0 16 h 28 min 49 s UTC+3,=20
> yanni...@gmail.com a =C3=A9crit=C2=A0:
>
>     dear Lojban speakers,
>
>     I'm writing a book on Natural Language Processing, in which I
>     frequently refer to Lojban.
>
>     At some point I'm comparing the number of morphological markers in
>     various languages: I take the sentence =E2=80=9CThe beautiful little
>     dancer=E2=80=9D (meaning a female dancer) and I count the
>     feminine-specific morphemes, for example in French:/l*a* be*lle*
>     petit*e* danseu*se*/ (four non-empty morphemes), in German/d*ie*
>     sch=C3=B6ne kleine T=C3=A4nzer*in*/ (two morphemes), etc.
>
>     In order to give a Lojban example, could you please provide me
>     with the sentence translated into Lojban, twice: first meaning a
>     male dancer and then meaning a female dancer (if there are any
>     differences).
>
>
> *le pa cmalu je melbi dansu* - /the small-and-beautiful dancer
> /*le pa cmalu je melbi dansu*=C2=A0- /the small-and-beautiful dancer
> /*le pa cmalu je melbi dansu noi ninmu*=C2=A0- /the small-and-beautiful=
=20
> dancer which is a woman
> /*le pa cmalu je melbi dansu noi nanmu*=C2=A0- /the small-and-beautiful=
=20
> dancer which is a man
> /
> You may also use *fetsi* and *nakni* for biological traits.
>
>
>     Thank you very much in advance,
>
>     Seasons' greetings
>
>     Yannis
>
> --=20
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> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send=20
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166cn%40googlegroups.com=20
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9166cn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=3Demail&utm_source=3Dfooter>.

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">
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    <p>You can also work ninmu/nanmu or fetsi/nakni into the the
      description itself and not use a relative clause as gleki has done
      below.</p>
    <p>See, the thing is, Lojban isn't like German and French and such.=C2=
=A0
      There's no grammatical "gender" in the usual sense.=C2=A0 If you want
      to say something is male, *say* it's male.=C2=A0 If you want to say
      it's female, *say* it's female.=C2=A0 Same with number.=C2=A0 In the =
example
      below, gleki's translations say "the *one* small-and-beautiful
      dancer" (that's what "pa" means.)=C2=A0 Without "pa", it would almost
      surely be understood the same... unless the context made a plural
      understanding more likely.=C2=A0 Number isn't marked, nor is gender..=
.=C2=A0
      Nor is species, even.=C2=A0 If you need to specify the dancer is huma=
n,
      you'll have to say so.=C2=A0 (This isn't actually different than
      English, though.=C2=A0 Anakin Skywalker and Senator Palpatine were
      watching Mon Cala "dancers" while they discussed the health-care
      benefits of the Dark Side.)</p>
    <p>I think you won't find the kind of markers you're looking for in
      Lojban, unless your range is broader than I'm understanding.</p>
    <p>~mark<br>
    </p>
    <div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix">On 12/28/22 13:24,
      <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"mailto:gleki.is...@gmai=
l.com">gleki.is...@gmail.com</a> wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type=3D"cite"
      cite=3D"mid:6ffc8d94-9c92-41d6-82f3-a229f4d9166cn@googlegroups.com">
      <meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DUTF=
-8">
      <br>
      <br>
      <div class=3D"gmail_quote">
        <div dir=3D"auto" class=3D"gmail_attr">Le mercredi 28 d=C3=A9cembre=
 2022
          =C3=A0 16 h 28 min 49 s UTC+3, <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviat=
ed" href=3D"mailto:yanni...@gmail.com">yanni...@gmail.com</a> a =C3=A9crit=
=C2=A0:<br>
        </div>
        <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0 0 0 0.8ex;
          border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">de=
ar
          Lojban speakers,
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>I'm writing a book on Natural Language Processing, in
            which I frequently refer to Lojban.</div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>At some point I'm comparing the number of morphological
            markers in various languages: I take the sentence =E2=80=9CThe
            beautiful little dancer=E2=80=9D (meaning a female dancer) and =
I
            count the feminine-specific morphemes, for example in
            French:<i> l*a* be*lle* petit*e* danseu*se*</i> (four
            non-empty morphemes), in German<i> d*ie* sch=C3=B6ne kleine
              T=C3=A4nzer*in*</i> (two morphemes), etc.</div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>In order to give a Lojban example, could you please
            provide me with the sentence translated into Lojban, twice:
            first meaning a male dancer and then meaning a female dancer
            (if there are any differences).</div>
        </blockquote>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div><b>le pa cmalu je melbi dansu</b> - <i>the
            small-and-beautiful dancer<br>
          </i><b>le pa cmalu je melbi dansu</b>=C2=A0-=C2=A0<i>the
            small-and-beautiful dancer<br>
          </i><b>le pa cmalu je melbi dansu noi ninmu</b>=C2=A0-=C2=A0<i>th=
e
            small-and-beautiful dancer which is a woman<br>
          </i><b>le pa cmalu je melbi dansu noi nanmu</b>=C2=A0-=C2=A0<i>th=
e
            small-and-beautiful dancer which is a man<br>
          </i><br>
          You may also use <b>fetsi</b> and <b>nakni</b> for
          biological traits.</div>
        <div>=C2=A0</div>
        <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0 0 0 0.8ex;
          border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>Thank you very much in advance,</div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>Seasons' greetings</div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>Yannis</div>
        </blockquote>
      </div>
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      To view this discussion on the web visit <a
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ffc8d94-9c92-41d6-82f3-a229f4d9166cn%40googlegroups.com</a>.<br>
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