From sentto-44114-14603-1025856049-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri Jul 05 01:01:22 2002 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Fri, 05 Jul 2002 01:01:22 z (PDT) Received: from n18.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.73]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.05) id 17QO1o-0004Df-01 for lojban-in@lojban.org; Fri, 05 Jul 2002 01:01:20 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-44114-14603-1025856049-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.193] by n18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jul 2002 08:00:49 -0000 X-Sender: gordon.dyke@bluewin.ch X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_7_4); 5 Jul 2002 08:00:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 31553 invoked from network); 5 Jul 2002 08:00:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jul 2002 08:00:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mta9n.bluewin.ch) (195.186.1.215) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jul 2002 08:00:48 -0000 Received: from oemcomputer (62.202.162.38) by mta9n.bluewin.ch (Bluewin AG 6.0.053) id 3D1C6E640012C812 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 5 Jul 2002 10:00:47 +0200 Message-ID: <00e901c223fa$422f7dc0$e3a0ca3e@oemcomputer> To: "jboste" References: <125.1313a673.2a564105@aol.com> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 From: "G. Dyke" X-Yahoo-Profile: gregvdyke MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list lojban@yahoogroups.com; contact lojban-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list lojban@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 10:01:21 +0200 Subject: Re: [lojban] pro-sumti question Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 133 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: gordon.dyke@bluewin.ch Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list cu'u la djordn. >The mei solution works because we're talking about pairs of >sumti, >not pairs of animals. That, in my opinion, is precisely why the solution doesn't work : we want a sumti which says "the referents of my last pair of sumti". Either, in context, we have pa gerku and pa mlatu in which case le remei refers to both of them or we just have le gerku and le mlatu (of which there could be any number), in which case le remei would refer to two sumti. We want the referents of those two sumti, so {la'e le remei cu tatpi} works with any {[gadri] broda cu brode [gadri] brodu}. I can't now work out what {le remei} actually means. How would it differ from {lei remei}? Could anyone share their views on which of these make sense and what they mean? le remei le se remei lei remei lei se remei It is, however likely that {lu'o le gerku .e le mlatu cu tatpi} doesn't mean that all of them are tired. Otherwise an officer telling his superior "lei nanmu cu tatpi" would not be telling the truth. I think this is one place where the book is right in the wrong way. The implicit quantifiers on lei don't work as they should. A mass, considered as a mass, is either tired or isn't (otherwise masses are as useful as sets). We can't have a situation where {lei nanmu cu tatpi .ije naku lei nanmu cu tatpi} is true. I'm going around in circles saying nothing here, so here are the main points, which should go of into three seperate threads: - How do we refer to the referents of the sumtis of the last sentence? (I think some sort of prosumti should be experimented with) - How do we use {remei} to refer to {le gerku .e le mlatu} in the context {.i pa gerku .i pa mlatu .i le gerku cu jersi le mlatu} - What do we do about these stupid-mass-things (pe'i la djan cowan po'o ka'e ciksi). It makes no sense to be able to say {loi cmacu cu crinu} because I decided that dying my own hair green wasn't enough. Greg ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/Pp91HA/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/GSaulB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe, send mail to lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/