From sentto-44114-14672-1027093780-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri Jul 19 08:55:33 2002 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Fri, 19 Jul 2002 08:55:34 z (PDT) Received: from n28.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.84]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.05) id 17Va6O-0002rG-01 for lojban-in@lojban.org; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 08:55:32 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-44114-14672-1027093780-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.195] by n28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Jul 2002 15:49:40 -0000 X-Sender: Pycyn@aol.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_7_4); 19 Jul 2002 15:49:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 56111 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2002 15:49:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jul 2002 15:49:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d10.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.42) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jul 2002 15:49:38 -0000 Received: from Pycyn@aol.com by imo-d10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id 9.184.b3ddb19 (3959) for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 11:49:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <184.b3ddb19.2a698f0d@aol.com> To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10509 From: pycyn@aol.com X-Yahoo-Profile: kaliputra MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list lojban@yahoogroups.com; contact lojban-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list lojban@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 11:49:33 EDT Subject: Re: [lojban] talca = challenge Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_184.b3ddb19.2a698f0d_boundary" X-archive-position: 202 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: pycyn@aol.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list --part1_184.b3ddb19.2a698f0d_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/19/2002 3:47:07 AM Central Daylight Time, gordon.dyke@bluewin.ch writes: << > In what sense does talca mean challenge? > > How would I say "he challenged him to a duel" How does the "duel" become > x3, > a property? >> {talsa}? Good question -- although the distinction between a property and an event is kinda small in a lot of cases. I would suppose {ko'a talsa ko'e le du'u ce'u damba ko'a} or some such, although {lenu damba} or {lenu ko'e damba ko'a} seems more natural. << Apart from defy, challenge could also mean "hindered" (horizontally challenged ;-) or "confronted" >> Does "challenge" mean "defy"? (can one defy to or defy at?). The "hindered" meaning is just pc for "deficient in" (except for "circumferentially challenged" which is never applied to anorectics, only obese). In any case, the notes on gi'uste suggest {nandu} for challenging situations -- that is without an agent, but with an abstract x1. "Confront" (and maybe "defy") seem to fit the definition of {talsa} pretty well, since they are usually over issues -- closer to properties than duels are. --part1_184.b3ddb19.2a698f0d_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/19/2002 3:47:07 AM Central Daylight Time, gordon.dyke@bluewin.ch writes:
<<

In what sense does talca mean challenge?

How would I say "he challenged him to a duel" How does the "duel" become x3,
a property?

>>
{talsa}?

Good question -- although the distinction between a property and an event is kinda small in a lot of cases. I would suppose {ko'a talsa ko'e le du'u ce'u damba ko'a} or some such, although {lenu damba} or {lenu ko'e damba ko'a} seems more natural.

<<
Apart from defy, challenge could also mean "hindered" (horizontally
challenged ;-) or "confronted"
>>

Does "challenge" mean "defy"? (can one defy to or defy at?). The "hindered" meaning is just pc for "deficient in" (except for "circumferentially challenged" which is never applied to anorectics, only obese). In any case, the notes on gi'uste suggest {nandu} for challenging situations -- that is without an agent, but with an abstract x1.
"Confront" (and maybe "defy") seem to fit the definition of {talsa} pretty well, since they are usually over issues -- closer to properties than duels are.

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