From sentto-44114-14851-1028141771-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Wed Jul 31 11:56:44 2002 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Wed, 31 Jul 2002 11:56:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.100]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.05) id 17ZyeI-0007Ha-01 for lojban-in@lojban.org; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 11:56:42 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-44114-14851-1028141771-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.197] by n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 Jul 2002 18:56:11 -0000 X-Sender: Pycyn@aol.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_7_4); 31 Jul 2002 18:56:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 88585 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2002 18:56:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Jul 2002 18:56:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-r10.mx.aol.com) (152.163.225.106) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jul 2002 18:56:10 -0000 Received: from Pycyn@aol.com by imo-r10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v33.5.) id r.12d.14ff3526 (3956) for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 14:55:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <12d.14ff3526.2a798cb8@aol.com> To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10509 From: pycyn@aol.com X-Yahoo-Profile: kaliputra MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list lojban@yahoogroups.com; contact lojban-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list lojban@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 14:55:52 EDT Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Parliamentary Procedures Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_12d.14ff3526.2a798cb8_boundary" X-archive-position: 381 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: pycyn@aol.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list --part1_12d.14ff3526.2a798cb8_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/31/2002 9:35:33 AM Central Daylight Time, jjllambias@hotmail.com writes: << > >"Order!" {se bacru} just calling attention to the hubbub, much more polite > >than, say, {ko smaji binxo} even if {ko} is not imperious (and it leaves a > >back-up position, as "Order" does) > > How about {ju'i}? >> Well, it is possible, but it seems to be more directed toward getting people to listen/look at the speaker, rather than shutting up and following proper procedures. Probably the same effect in practice, though. << >"Second" (tsali gasnu} Other suggestions welcomed on this one (and all the >others as well, of course). {stidi sarji}, {stidi kansa}. >> Much better! The first is general for pro comments, so I guess I like the second best so far. << >"Carry by to" {jinga} with the ayes on the prize and the nos in the foes. The place structure doesn't seem to fit. x3 belongs with x1, not with x2. I would go with {se zanru}, and the numbers might be added with {mau} and {semau}: {ko'a se zanru mau li 9 semau li 3} >> Well, I don't agree about what goes with what necessarily, but I admit the whole is a little farfetched. The {se zanru} form is also politer. << >"Table" {pensi denpa} -- a lujvo to get the places in. Did you mean {penmi}, or do you really mean {pensi}? I like {bavypu'i} for "postpone". >> I suppose that compound is malylatno -- what, after all, do you put where and on what (the table)? I meant {pensi}, the general term for considering things, apparently. And it is just (official) consideration that is being intermitted. << >"Call to order" {e'u [the meeting] cfari } Polite again {coiju'i} >> Same problem as with {ju'i} above -- and mere attitudinals do not make for easy sumti to talk about the process with. << >"Adjourn" {se fanmo} {fe'o} >> Same problems. How do you move to adjourn? << >"Recess" {denpa} {de'a pensi'u} >"Meeting" {nu pensi kansa} (Hawk ptui! nu pensi'u >> {pensi'u} smells malglico -- we want a coming together of a group, not a bumping into one another by its various members. It may be the best we can do, but it is not very accurate (nor startlingly inciteful as another type of good lujvo would be). It sounds like the gas laws -- molecules regularly bumping into one another -- not an organization at a meeting (one hopes -- although,...} --part1_12d.14ff3526.2a798cb8_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/31/2002 9:35:33 AM Central Daylight Time, jjllambias@hotmail.com writes:

<<
>"Order!" {se bacru} just calling attention to the hubbub, much more polite
>than, say, {ko smaji binxo} even if {ko} is not imperious (and it leaves a
>back-up position, as "Order" does)

How about {ju'i}?

>>
Well, it is possible, but it seems to be more directed toward getting people to listen/look at the speaker, rather than shutting up and following proper procedures.  Probably the same effect in practice, though.

<<
>"Second" (tsali gasnu} Other suggestions welcomed on this one (and all the
>others as well, of course).

{stidi sarji}, {stidi kansa}.
>>
Much better!  The first is general for pro comments, so I guess I like the second best so far.

<<
>"Carry by  to"  {jinga} with the ayes on the prize and the nos in the foes.

The place structure doesn't seem to fit. x3 belongs with x1, not
with x2. I would go with {se zanru}, and the numbers might be added
with {mau} and {semau}: {ko'a se zanru mau li 9 semau li 3}
>>
Well, I don't agree about what goes with what necessarily, but I admit the whole is a little farfetched.  The {se zanru} form is also politer.

<<
>"Table" {pensi denpa} -- a lujvo to get the places in.

Did you mean {penmi}, or do you really mean {pensi}?
I like {bavypu'i} for "postpone".
>>
I suppose that compound is malylatno -- what, after all,  do you put where and on what (the table)?  I meant {pensi}, the general term for considering things, apparently.  And it is just (official) consideration that is being intermitted.

<<
>"Call to order" {e'u [the meeting] cfari }  Polite again

{coiju'i}
>>

Same problem as with {ju'i} above -- and mere attitudinals do not make for easy sumti to talk about the process with.

<<
>"Adjourn" {se fanmo}

{fe'o}
>>
Same problems.  How do you move to adjourn?

<<
>"Recess" {denpa}

{de'a pensi'u}

>"Meeting" {nu pensi kansa} (Hawk ptui!

nu pensi'u
>>
{pensi'u} smells malglico -- we want a coming together of a group, not a bumping into one another by its various members.  It may be the best we can do, but it is not very accurate (nor startlingly inciteful as another type of good lujvo would be).  It sounds like the gas laws -- molecules regularly bumping into one another -- not an organization at a meeting (one hopes -- although,...}
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