From sentto-44114-15034-1029156386-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon Aug 12 05:46:59 2002 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Mon, 12 Aug 2002 05:46:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from n18.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.73]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.05) id 17eEb3-0007D7-00 for lojban-in@lojban.org; Mon, 12 Aug 2002 05:46:57 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-44114-15034-1029156386-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.193] by n18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Aug 2002 12:46:26 -0000 X-Sender: jcowan@reutershealth.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_7_4); 12 Aug 2002 12:46:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 20575 invoked from network); 12 Aug 2002 12:46:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Aug 2002 12:46:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail2.reutershealth.com) (65.246.141.151) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Aug 2002 12:46:25 -0000 Received: from skunk.reutershealth.com (IDENT:cowan@[10.65.117.21]) by mail2.reutershealth.com (Pro-8.9.3/Pro-8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA19842; Mon, 12 Aug 2002 08:57:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200208121257.IAA19842@mail2.reutershealth.com> Received: by skunk.reutershealth.com (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Mon, 12 Aug 2002 08:43:45 -0400 To: Philip.Newton@datenrevision.de (Newton, Philip) Cc: lojban@yahoogroups.com ('lojban@yahoogroups.com') In-Reply-To: from "Newton, Philip" at Aug 12, 2002 10:03:37 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL3] From: John Cowan X-Yahoo-Profile: john_w_cowan MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list lojban@yahoogroups.com; contact lojban-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list lojban@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 08:43:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [lojban] nolraitru Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 564 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jcowan@reutershealth.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list Newton, Philip scripsit: > > How would you expand "nolraitru" (meaning "king") into a tanru? > > The obvious "nobli traji turni" doesn't make sense to me, since that is > "(nobli traji) turni", i.e. "(noble type-of superlative) type-of governor". That's exactly what it means: among all noble (=high-ranking by birth) governors, the king is the noblest. It's also true that he is the highest *governor* apart from his nobility, so nolkemraitru would also be a reasonable lujvo for the concept. > I would have expected either "nobli ke traji turni" = "nobli (traji turni)" > = "noble type-of (superlative type-of governor)" or "traji nobli turni" = > "(traji nobli) turni" = "(superlative type-of noble) type-of governor". Still, it's not clear that the default scale for governorship is that of hierarchical rank: the governor-est person might be the one who governs the best rather than the most. > (Incidentally, is it possible to express "traji nobli turni" with the word > order "nobli traji turni" by using cmavo? I tried "nobli co traji turni", > intending "(nobli co traji) turni" but the co attached not the "traji" but > the whole "traji turni" to the "nobli". And "ke nobli co traji ke'e turni" > was rejected by jbofi'e as ungrammatical.) No, "co" is always longest scope because of its effects on trailing places. See The Book. -- John Cowan http://www.ccil.org/~cowan jcowan@reutershealth.com To say that Bilbo's breath was taken away is no description at all. There are no words left to express his staggerment, since Men changed the language that they learned of elves in the days when all the world was wonderful. --The Hobbit ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/RN.GAA/GSaulB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe, send mail to lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/